Matrix just isn’t up to it. It doesn’t function the same really. It doesn’t feel the same.

This would depend on your specific piefed instance.

Do you mean the people of Han ancestry on the island of Taiwan that claim sovereignity over parts of India, Russia, Bhutan, Pakistan, Japan, Afghanistan, Myanmar, Tajikistan; and all of Tibet, Mongolia and the People’s Republic of China.

Can I see some evidence that the majority of people of Han ancestry on Taiwan specifically, and seriously claim sovereignty over those territories and actually specifically plan and desire to launch a military assault to retake them?

In regards to Mongolia specifically, they no longer claim this.

Those people that imposed forty years of martial law on the population of the Island (commonly known as the White Terror) so as to commit Politicide, executing over three thousand, imprisoning over one hundred and forty thousand, not to mention killing between eighteen and twenty eight thousand to thwart a popular uprising. Those people that after two generations of crushing repression felt secure enough, in their possession over the Island’s levers of power and capacity to generate income, to allow elections.

Sorry, are you claiming that every single Han Taiwanese person now are guilty by blood for what their ancestors did?

Are you also claiming that every single Taiwanese person who was alive during the White Terror was inherently implicated in the actions of the regime? Do you hold the same position for Spanish people during the Franco Regime, or Chileans during the Pinochet regime? Are the current people of Spain or Chile all just “those people” in relation to their authoritarian periods?

Is it those people that you want me to speak to? Or are you trying to push this in some kind of ‘All Lives Matter’ direction?

No, I want you to provide evidence that the majority of the overall population of modern-day Taiwan specifically call for the invasion and annexation of the PRC and other territories that you mentioned.

All I’m getting so far is you being massively racist.

Oi, cool it. I don’t want to just expel someone from piefed.social for that - but don’t be hurling comments like that.

Right, but I don’t think that davel (shown in the OP) is being intellectually honest regarding the ‘one china’ policy and how the Taiwanese actually see it.

As stated: Taiwan literally can’t safely officially repudiate the ’one china’ policy from their end because of the possibility that China would see that as declaring independence and potentially regard that as justification for military intervention. No-one in Taiwan seriously believes that it is conceivable to retake the mainland, nor any other historically old ROC territories.

In terms of the rest of the world, ‘one china’ is expressed as a form of strategic ambiguity in reference to Taiwan.

Sorry, are you calling all people of Han ancestry on Taiwan inherently “cancerous”?

And I am asking for evidence that a significant amount of people, the majority of citizens of Taiwan seriously desire and hope for the mass annexation of China.

I see again this is useless as you can’t see anything past piefed positives and repetitively ignore the point to focus on specific unrelated specifics such as as alt accounts downvoting

You are alleging here that there is already a user, or bloc of users that organise downvote raids against particular users or communities or instances and that their home instances - or the fediverse more broadly in the form of defederating their home instance, does nothing.

You bought this up in reference, to function as opposition to my claim that an instance that engaged in deliberate vote brigading would find itself potentially defederated. So I am effectively asking for receipts for your allegation.

rather than dedicating an entire comm towards hate.

Are you arguing that MeanwhileOnGrad should be shut down by the sh.itjust.works mods?

Because I’m not going to search his entire history when it’s one of his top comments, and the comment even reflects his entire philosophy

So you made an assumption because that particular comment of his got upvoted a lot. He is not a frequent user of meanwhileongrad.

Got it, only counts if admins actively encouraging and instead of not doing anything about the comm

Again: Can I see a post that has been repeatedly hit by downvotes from goat alts, by the way?

Or that doesn’t count because not within 2 months?

You claimed he “frequents” meanwhileongrad. A comment chain 5 months ago where the context is actually related to allegations against Piefed is hardly evidence of frequenting it. By your logic I am thus a frequent visitor of memes@lemmy.ml.

Because it’s irrelevant to the point if they are downvoting with multiple accounts when using comms to drive users to do it for them. You’re also ignoring the admins of the instance not doing anything for comms doing that exact behavior.

Again, you would have to show some evidence that the actual instance owners are doing this or actively involved. Can I see a post that has been repeatedly hit by downvotes from goat alts, by the way?

And yes rimu frequents Meanwhileongrad

I’ve just tracked back through 2 months of rimus comments and not found a single comment from him on Meanwhileongrad.

You got any actual evidence that people in Taiwan actually wish for this in any appreciable numbers?

How would the USA do that?

The key words here are “allowed to be acknowledged as existing”. Not acknowledging a community’s existence means not federating it. .world does that with db0’s piracy community because of EU laws, and it’s basically an instance-imposed community ban. Pyfed has/had a hard-coded denylist of community names in the source code that stopped them from being federated, and the result was none of the instances running unmodified Piefed were able to access them.

No, that’s just relevant to the mass community lookup tool. Piracy communities can still be federated individually on the Piefedverse (so to speak), and I believe that Rimu has removed that term from that.

Taiwan literally can’t safely officially repudiate the ‘one china’ policy from their end because of the possibility that China would see that as declaring independence and potentially regard that as justification for military intervention. No-one in Taiwan seriously believes that it is conceivable to retake the mainland, nor any other historically old ROC territories.

Cool, again not the point when it’s instance admins who are okay with the behavior. Especially if it helps get them traffic and users.

Right, and in this context that would become a defederated instance if they were found as admins to be specifically engaging in that behaviour themselves. If it’s just individuals on the instance acting on their own volition (and I have asked you if goat specifically uses alts to mass-downvote people multiple times across the fediverse - and you haven’t confirmed if he does that).

How is this relevant to him running the comm specifically designed to drive people to attack others. Even in this thread one user, who doesn’t seem to care about the Jordan Lund shit show, even uses the comm to distract from how world handled the situation that most already forgot or didn’t care about. Rimu himself frequenting the same comm and doing exactly the same attacks to others and other instances is why people have so many concerns about piefed. Other instance admins are doing the same

Frequenting what comm? Are you talking about Tankiejerk or MeanwhileInGrad? I’ve never seen Rimu comment there ever.

Simply looking at frequency and speed.

Trolls are not always frequent at all.

Where did I say he was, it was an example of admins being okay with terrible behavior because they do it for them.

Jordan Lund just runs some local lemmy.world communities. Big communities, and maybe he runs them badly - and lemmy.world absolutely took reputational hits for it.

Goat is multiple accounts and runs comms specifically to do exactly that. See meanwhile on grad on shit just works.

Right, but is he a part of the sh.itjust.works administration? Does he use those accounts to double-vote negatively against users he doesn’t like across the fediverse?

But piefed world help them do that. And as long as they upvote equally or more than they downvote would be considered better than those downvoting or that have content being downvoted.

I can assure you that if an instance opened up on piefed that was being used by the administrators of that instance to target a particular user or users with repeated downvotes or instance via multi-accounting or just general bloc downvoting via multiple people that I could call for its defederation.

What ways would you suggest to isolate trolls?

Jordan Lund wasn’t downvote trolling.

Goat is one user. For comparison, do you have an example of someone on the opposite side, or downvoting en masse or drama-baiting for different causes?

Moreover, I would submit that a user downvoting a lot and getting repeatedly banned from other communities and instances for it is quite different to an instance specifically organising downvote raids comprised of multiple users and alt accounts. Does Goat load up alt accounts to downvote?

No, it explains the logic behind the reputation system. The purpose is as I said, to isolate trolls, which 9/10 they absolutely are.

Are the admins of shi.itjust.works specifically openly encouraging and endorsing mass vote manipulation of users or communities on other instances? Or are individuals doing it on their own?

They do, to be sure, but you are severely overemphasising his anti-communist positions and injecting it where there is no obvious connection at all. And having spoken to him, I see no reason to make this connection here at all.

Piefed originally hid the mod logs and upvoting and downvoting data from users. Why? Because Rimu felt it could be used to harass and cause drama. It is likely the same mindset from which the blocklist logic comes from.

He eventually mostly about-turned on this due to most people opposing it.

Behave? Huh?

I think defederation reasons are different things entirely than hypothetical word filters for users. I don’t know if an instance would get defederated for adding weird terms to their word filter, but I don’t think it would do them any favours.