- cross-posted to:
- aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
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Look up 'Hell’s Angels" by Hunter Thompson.
There’s a chapter in the book where he talks about the economics of being a biker/drop out/artist circa 1970.
A biker could work six months as a union stevedore and earn enough to stay on the road for two years. A part time waitress could make enough to support herself and her musician boyfriend.
Or, to put it another way, in 1960 minimum wage was $1.00/hour and the cost of the average home was $11,000.00. A burger flipper could get hired on high school graduation day and be a home owner in 20 years without ever getting a raise.
You can still be a nomad at today’s wages. I have a friend who works for a school year as a teacher, and then travels extensively for a couple of years. He lives like a nomad though, no fancy hotels or accommodations. That’s what the Hell’s Angels did back then too, in addition to plenty of additional illegal activities which provided them extra funding.
Well, one other thing in the 70s was everyone kind of lived a simpler life anyway. Not many had really luxurious things, and most places weren’t trying to be anything fancy. It’s just a place to live and the basics for most. I love what we have today, but I also miss those times as well since nobody cared if your place of living wasn’t up to date with all the luxeries we come to take for granted as necessities or judged for possibly not having them.
in the '70s*
Wow thanks for clearing that up lol
Home ownership was lower in the 1960s than it is now:
https://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/2024/01/30/home-ownership-rate-q4-2023
…And?
Some folks try to play off that people are richer today because you have more two car families. The counter argument is that if both parents work the family needs two cars. One fact alone doesn’t paint the picture.
I’m saying the 1960s were worse. By any measure
So, you believe that all the technological and medical improvements of the past six decades were the result of massive inflation and the collapse of the middle class?
Could you elucidate?
What are you talking about? We are richer now than then.
Just look up, I don’t know, the percentage of homes with hot water or electricity. Look up percentage of homes with an indoor toilet. It’s nearly 100% now… But in 1960s these were not a given
Or, to put it another way, in 1960 minimum wage was $1.00/hour and the cost of the average home was $11,000.00. A burger flipper could get hired on high school graduation day and be a homeowner in 20 years without ever getting a raise.
Are you saying that all the technological and medical progress of the last 60 years was a direct result of the decrease of real wages?
Real wages are up since the 1960s
My idea of becoming rich isn’t a fancy mansion… It’s having enough for all of my essentials and having plenty left over…
Ya know, what used to be normal?
The purchasing of the median person power has NEVER been higher than now
https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-purchasing-power-of-american-households
what time period are you referring to?
It appears that the claim that half of Americans make under $35,000 is not accurate. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the median personal income in the United States for 2022 was $40,480 (FRED - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA646N). Additionally, data from DQYDJ shows that at the 40th percentile, income was approximately $58,001, suggesting that less than half of the population earns under $35,000 (DQYDJ – Don’t Quit Your Day Job - https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/).
Furthermore, the median household income was reported to be $74,580 in 2022, a figure that significantly exceeds the $35,000 threshold (Census.gov - https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.html). This indicates that the median individual and household incomes in the U.S. are both higher than $35,000, disproving the initial claim.
If the median household income is 75k, assuming dual-income, then that’s probably where the 35k comes from: 75k/2 = 37.5k.
But there are significant amount of households who just have one person making 75K instead
so per worker, it’s actually 59K according to the data
The figure referenced in this tweet is likely referring to the 2021 net compensation chart we saw making the rounds a few weeks back. Indeed, it’s correct, ~50% of all Americans made less than 35k per year in net total compensation in 2021.
In 2022, that figure rose to ~40k. So the trend is going in the right direction, at least. And IIRC, the chart does include teenagers, college students, people working part time or underemployed, etc.
Also, that first “stop” sentence is a bit ‘ironic’, considering that statistically, in the US at least, the poorer you are, the more children you have.
This can’t be right. How does anyone survive on that?
I looked around and the average salary Q4 last year was over $59k.. I don’t know what the meme used for the “half” metric, but if they used the entire population of the US that would certainly drive the average down by including people of non-working age. The average I cited probably doesn’t account for unemployment, but that’s only 3.7% so that’s not going to push the cited average much lower.
If half the working-age, non-disabled adults in this country were literally only making the meme wage or less it would be incredibly dire.
That website seems to be doing the mean average. The median average is 41k currently, and back in 2020 median income was 35k, so the OP post might be a few years old.
The (mean) average might be 59k now, but half of people are making below 41k. Median is generally a better stat because excessive incomes on the ends don’t skew it massively. Adjusted for inflation this is essentially the exact same situation workers have been in for half a century. Wage growth is non existent, adjusted for inflation.
This is explicitly just for full-time workers. There are links on that website that show the numbers for part-time workers, which are far, far lower. The ~40k number we were posting was the average for all workers.
It’s important to remember that 39.5 hours a week is part time, and a lot of low-wage jobs keep employees under full time to lower benefit requirements. So all those types of jobs aren’t included in your calculation. It’s better to do the median of all workers.
The 40K number is for all workers above the age of 15
I don’t know about you, but I earned little income until my 20s, so if you include dependents, there’s a quite a few people with no income. While they only bring the midpoint down, it’s also not a fair point of comparison
None of these sources include people with no income in statistics about worker income.
My buddy worked at an ice cream parlor part time after school. He was included into the statistics because he was a worker over 15. But he was also a dependent who lived with his parents.
So when you say half of workers make X, it includes dependents who work like 10 hours a week.
Because it’s wrong
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t02.htm
$1,145 a week is the median, do the math
How the fuck is anyone alive?
Because the number is from before the pandemic when Trump was president
35k I assume of dollars per year? Which is roughly 2900000 roubles month. I have another question: why the fuck everything is so expensive? 2.9M ₽/month is a lot. You can buy flat every few months in Moscow. Something is wrong with your economy and policies if THAT considered small.
Because NIBMYs keep voting against new housing which raises the rents, raises the cost to buy a house. In places that develop, rents are trending lower, while in places that don’t the rents keep going up
Edit: there is a huge caveat in my post which is I missed that these are household numbers, not individual numbers.
That would be amazing if it were true, but it’s not. In 2022 the median income in USA was over $74k
Source: https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.html / https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/demo/tables/p60/279/tableA1.xlsx
Reminder that median means "half of the samples are above this point and half of the samples are below, which means exactly what was stated in the OP “half of America”
I fully support the ideas from OP that corporations need to pay people better and wages need to at least attempt to track economic gains, but we can send that message while telling the truth and citing our sources to prove that the message is legit.
The median net compensation for American workers in 2019 was $34,248.45, which is less than $35,000. So, the claim in the screenshot is apparently accurate for individuals. Granted, household income is a better indication of socioeconomic standing for people with spouses.
That’s from when Trump was president, it’s $CURRENT_YEAR, for God’s sake
