• FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    You have yet to show a single philosopher who has justified in killing an unlimited number of civilians

    And I don’t think I ever will. As I said earlier, “There is no military goal that justifies killing “any amount” of civilians. All of them have limits, which are based on military capabilities.”

    Can you even show a philosopher who agrees with your upper limit cap on civilian deaths

    I never provided an upper limit cap.

    I said “we would consider 15,000 to 75,000 civilian deaths to be normal at this point.”

    Normal, as in “typical”. Which is not the same as acceptable, it depends on whether you believe a “normal” war is acceptable.

    As I suggested earlier, it’s quite reasonable to take the pacifist position that even “normal” wars are not acceptable.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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      4 months ago

      And I don’t think I ever will. As I said earlier, “There is no military goal that justifies killing “any amount” of civilians. All of them have limits, which are based on military capabilities.”

      Israel’s goal is to destroy Hamas. Every time they kill innocent children, they create more members of Hamas. Therefore, their goal is any amount of children including 100% of them.

      Sorry, I’m not going to stop making this about children just because you don’t want it to be.

      So when do you think they should stop killing children before it is no longer justified?

      • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Israel’s goal is to destroy Hamas. Every time they kill innocent children, they create more members of Hamas. Therefore, their goal is any amount of children including 100% of them.

        Destroying Hamas means destroying the current leadership, so it can no longer function.

        It’s true that Israel is running the risk of inciting hatred and creating more fighters, but those future fighters won’t be in Hamas. They will be in some other organization that replaces Hamas, just like Hamas replaced Fatah.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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          4 months ago

          Destroying Hamas means destroying the leadership, so it can no longer function.

          Where is that claimed? Or is that just your opinion?

          • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            These were Netanyahu’s goals in October:

            destruction of Hamas’s military and governing capabilities; and returning the hostages home

            And these are Netanyahu’s current goals:

            Seizing the Rafah Crossing is a very significant step towards destroying the remaining military capabilities of Hamas, including the elimination of the four terrorist battalions in Rafah, and an important step to damage the governmental capabilities of Hamas

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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              4 months ago

              You mean his goals keep changing? Hmm… seems like a constantly changing military objective would allow you to kill an unlimited number of children justifiably based on your reasoning.

              • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                In October, he said he wanted

                1. destruction of Hamas’s military
                2. and governing capabilities;
                3. and returning the hostages home

                Today, he says the Rafah operation is a significant step towards

                1. destroying the remaining military capabilities of Hamas, including the elimination of the four terrorist battalions in Rafah,
                2. and an important step to damage the governmental capabilities of Hamas

                The first two goals look unchanged.

                There is no mention of hostages in my quote. Maybe he isn’t interested in that any more, but it’s entirely possible he mentioned it elsewhere and I didn’t see it.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                  4 months ago

                  destruction of Hamas’s military

                  You mean the military that grows every time a child is killed. So this never ends and children never stop being killed.

                  • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                    4 months ago

                    No, Hamas forces are steadily getting smaller. If there are new recruits, they are not enough to make up for the losses.