'I have shop-lifted to feed my family': Dr Liz Allen on the shame of poverty, and the life lessons it has taught her
www.abc.net.au
For Pay Day, demographer and social researcher Dr Liz Allen shares the shame that comes with living in poverty, the secrets of survival, and how this experience "grants perspective that can never be bought".

This bit resonated.

It makes me so terribly sad that in a society such as ours the wealthy keep creating new means to harm the less lucky.

That aside, Alan Kholer has also opined in the past that our economics policy is based on disdain.

I know many will read my financial experiences and see failure. I haven’t failed; I succeeded when the odds were totally stacked against me. I made good what life threw at me. I survived … with my values intact.

I can only agree.

  • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    1·
    5 months ago

    Sure whatever if you become a parasite but very, very, few people ever realistically get the choice to do so. Like long before you even have to decide between embracing evil and getting shares/property/whatever you need food, clothes, shelter, and medicine. It’s completely luck.

    If you get that chance early, or if you are an heir or whatever to fortune kids are easy. If not kids are hard.

    Having children is in no way related to the luckness of it.

    • Ilandar@aussie.zone
      41·
      5 months ago

      If you get that chance early, or if you are an heir or whatever to fortune kids are easy. If not kids are hard.

      But the argument being made here is not about whether raising children is easy or difficult; it’s about whether “money is luck”. Your life choices affect how much money you have. That is a fundamental truth.

          • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            11·
            5 months ago

            Do we agree that choices are not free? That the set of choices available to someone is determined by precededing moments, a chain of which extends back well beyond anything a person could be held not merely responsible for but indeed capable of having any influence over at all?

            • Ilandar@aussie.zone
              41·
              5 months ago

              You seem to be misunderstanding the point I am making. I am not arguing that the only thing that dictates wealth are the decisions of the individual. I am arguing that the decisions of the individual contribute to their wealth. Maybe you see the world from a determinist mindset, but I certainly don’t. There are always choices we can make about how we choose to live. Sometimes these require sacrifices, such as the choice to not have 7 children.

              • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                1·
                5 months ago

                But 7 children doesn’t influence your geographical location, the quality of your education, your skin colour, the quality of your parents’ education, your familial wealth, your health, the stability of your home life, your gender, your health, the job opportunities upon attaining your majority etc etc etc. It is negligible and largely downstream of the good luck required to be well off and does nothing to undermine wealth being all luck.

                • Ilandar@aussie.zone
                  3·
                  5 months ago

                  But 7 children doesn’t influence your geographical location, the quality of your education, your skin colour, the quality of your parents’ education, your familial wealth, your health, the stability of your home life, your gender, your health, the job opportunities upon attaining your majority etc etc etc.

                  I never said it did. Please refer to my previous reply:

                  I am not arguing that the only thing that dictates wealth are the decisions of the individual.

                  • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                    1·
                    5 months ago

                    What determines what choices you want to make? What determines your ability to exercise agency? what determines your values?

                    You’re looking at people who sit around a table, get dealt a hand of cards, have randomly assigned levels of skill and then after everyone has played their hands you’re trying to argue luck wasn’t what determined how people scored…