I’m definitely working class, like I couldn’t stop working and coast the rest of my life on what I have saved now without really cutting everything to the bone.
However, I max out my 401k and iras every year. We also put enough money aside that our two kids will probably need to take out little to no money for their college educations. We are contemplating how many hundreds of thousands of dollars we can afford for a house renovation, and we can still take two comfortable vacations per year.
I’m very comfortable and know I am very lucky.
Which is why it’s absurd to put me in the same category as the people who literally have cut everything to the bone and still worry about making ends meet at the end of the month. While we should still team up against the owning class, our financial situations are drastically different and shouldn’t be treated as the same because that would do a huge disservice to their actual relative situation.
I don’t think it’s about denying the difference between subsistence living and moderate wealth, so much as prioritizing a framing that identifies the systemic issue of capital rather than a comparative placement on an arbitrary scale.
It’s not that those comparisons don’t exist, it’s just less important than the shared relationship to capital, and happens to distract from what’s actually meaningful.
While it may not be explicitly denying it does infact, IMO tell a 13 year old to disregard the difference in the way this is written. So I think the comment still stands that this isn’t a great way to highlight the difference between our work to a 13yo
I think we agree more than you think. I am not asking that someone disregards the class separation and understanding it is very much a created system to separate that fine line.
My point is that this post is very literal and can come off as doing the opposite it can fill a person’s head at that age with, “you should also disregard it because it is made up and doesn’t exist.” Quite literally when the argument to be made is that while it is made up it very much is in active use and very much exists and disregarding where you stand in the world isn’t being realistic or self aware if you want to change it you have to work hard for it in most cases. The point is that it is also silly to disregard that while class is a social construct it is in use and ignoring it can put you at a disadvantage too. You could create the expectation that because it is a construct that not acting on it or against that construct is a problem as well.
My point is thirteen year olds are still very much developing kids that are very easy to manipulate and or they very much can misinterpret a point being made. I could see this being said to a kid that took it literal enough that they decide the best course of action is because it is made up it must not exist therefore it isn’t a problem and therefore they don’t need to do anything about it. That was my point. I don’t disagree with you but I think posts like this are meant to self justify other social constructs that already misconstrue ideas and we live in an age of information where straight forward statements like this are also not the bigger picture and could be equivalent to someone just flat out making a post that The Earth is flat and we have learned that young people are easily influenced.
Yes I understand that the earth being flat is an actual conspiracy but it was also established as a joke and someone took it quite literally and ran with it. The Internet is dangerous and as adults we should be explaining both sides of the fence to our youth.
“Hey classes are a construct to control it and separate so that way the wealthy have more say so and can control our rights as people. However, don’t treat that created system as fictional because it is very much in place and disregarding it is bad for you and others. If you want to change then be aware of it and make something of yourself so you can be that person with the ability to make those changes.” I don’t know about you but I would rather someone young interpret it this way rather than outright ignore it because regardless of what we think the truth is capital is absolutely relative to class relation and the culture and laws and people in power make sure that is the case. Teach young people to acknowledge that and encourage them to be aware and change that. Both can be taught but this image doesn’t express that. You and I are on the same side friend. I just took the image here more literally and if you and I can agree there are multiple ways to interpret this then imagine what a teenager would do with this single statement and developing brains.
EDIT: top that on top of things teens are already trying to understand and deal with. Their social life, understanding who they are, anxieties from their brain and developing bodies. Social fitting in, sex, education, forming their own opinions and selves and creating an identity. Then just coming out and saying, “disregard that dad is literally a working class member because the rich said so.” It isn’t how I would handle it. I would want my kid to know exactly where we stand and who has control over where we are life wise and ask them to be better or do better and change that.
This is kind of silly.
I’m definitely working class, like I couldn’t stop working and coast the rest of my life on what I have saved now without really cutting everything to the bone.
However, I max out my 401k and iras every year. We also put enough money aside that our two kids will probably need to take out little to no money for their college educations. We are contemplating how many hundreds of thousands of dollars we can afford for a house renovation, and we can still take two comfortable vacations per year.
I’m very comfortable and know I am very lucky.
Which is why it’s absurd to put me in the same category as the people who literally have cut everything to the bone and still worry about making ends meet at the end of the month. While we should still team up against the owning class, our financial situations are drastically different and shouldn’t be treated as the same because that would do a huge disservice to their actual relative situation.
I don’t think it’s about denying the difference between subsistence living and moderate wealth, so much as prioritizing a framing that identifies the systemic issue of capital rather than a comparative placement on an arbitrary scale.
It’s not that those comparisons don’t exist, it’s just less important than the shared relationship to capital, and happens to distract from what’s actually meaningful.
While it may not be explicitly denying it does infact, IMO tell a 13 year old to disregard the difference in the way this is written. So I think the comment still stands that this isn’t a great way to highlight the difference between our work to a 13yo
It tells a 13yo that comparative wealth isn’t what matters, capital ownership is.
It isn’t ‘silly’ to dismiss the former, it’s the entire point. Unless you disagree with capital being foundational to class relations…?
I think we agree more than you think. I am not asking that someone disregards the class separation and understanding it is very much a created system to separate that fine line.
My point is that this post is very literal and can come off as doing the opposite it can fill a person’s head at that age with, “you should also disregard it because it is made up and doesn’t exist.” Quite literally when the argument to be made is that while it is made up it very much is in active use and very much exists and disregarding where you stand in the world isn’t being realistic or self aware if you want to change it you have to work hard for it in most cases. The point is that it is also silly to disregard that while class is a social construct it is in use and ignoring it can put you at a disadvantage too. You could create the expectation that because it is a construct that not acting on it or against that construct is a problem as well.
My point is thirteen year olds are still very much developing kids that are very easy to manipulate and or they very much can misinterpret a point being made. I could see this being said to a kid that took it literal enough that they decide the best course of action is because it is made up it must not exist therefore it isn’t a problem and therefore they don’t need to do anything about it. That was my point. I don’t disagree with you but I think posts like this are meant to self justify other social constructs that already misconstrue ideas and we live in an age of information where straight forward statements like this are also not the bigger picture and could be equivalent to someone just flat out making a post that The Earth is flat and we have learned that young people are easily influenced.
Yes I understand that the earth being flat is an actual conspiracy but it was also established as a joke and someone took it quite literally and ran with it. The Internet is dangerous and as adults we should be explaining both sides of the fence to our youth.
“Hey classes are a construct to control it and separate so that way the wealthy have more say so and can control our rights as people. However, don’t treat that created system as fictional because it is very much in place and disregarding it is bad for you and others. If you want to change then be aware of it and make something of yourself so you can be that person with the ability to make those changes.” I don’t know about you but I would rather someone young interpret it this way rather than outright ignore it because regardless of what we think the truth is capital is absolutely relative to class relation and the culture and laws and people in power make sure that is the case. Teach young people to acknowledge that and encourage them to be aware and change that. Both can be taught but this image doesn’t express that. You and I are on the same side friend. I just took the image here more literally and if you and I can agree there are multiple ways to interpret this then imagine what a teenager would do with this single statement and developing brains.
EDIT: top that on top of things teens are already trying to understand and deal with. Their social life, understanding who they are, anxieties from their brain and developing bodies. Social fitting in, sex, education, forming their own opinions and selves and creating an identity. Then just coming out and saying, “disregard that dad is literally a working class member because the rich said so.” It isn’t how I would handle it. I would want my kid to know exactly where we stand and who has control over where we are life wise and ask them to be better or do better and change that.