And I’m not as sure it’s the citizens he protects so much as the city itself
I think he’d consider that a distinction without difference. The city is the citizens.
He’s either at least been partially responsible for some killings and will let people die when it benefits not so much himself, but the proper functioning of the city.
The “proper functioning of the city” is a state of relative harmony and peace between the citizens. Most of those that found their end at his direction were rather opposed to the “proper functioning of the city”.
what does that society do when that person is inevitably gone?
I surmise that much of his efforts in building the integrity of the city, and its institutions, might be said to constitute an inoculation of sorts against any
“greedy and clumsy” successors.
I do like book Vetinari, purely because we do have those insights to his thought process and that as he’s a fictional character, his methods will work as intended.
As I’ve watched the representative democracy in the US make its faults very obvious, it’s got me questioning other types of leadership. Distributed power like communism or anarchism have some appealing features, but radically changing any government seems to require some form of authoritarianism to see the change through and to maintain it. That seems a lot like what Vetinari did to stabilize the city. He’s great as a fictional leader, and I think his grey areas highlight some important differences between him, and let’s say, Carrot.
Thinking we could find a real life Vetinari is what still concerns me about a political revolution, as so many real people will promise what he brought to a place like Ankh, but then instead prioritize themselves. He makes me both believe a little more that we could have a successful change in governance, but then everything in the real world reminds me it is fiction. Not impossible, but not likely as real humans are so fallible.
Discworld books feel the opposite of real life in that way. In the books, we know more of Vetinari than we do of the life of most peasants, and what we do know of those peasants, we know they fear Vetinari and think he’s kinda evil, while we the readers know he’s not. In real life, we see leaders try and present the good side, usually to con us, and be evil behind the scenes. If we saw someone acting like Vetinari, most of us would probably not support him, although Trumpism shows that to maybe not be so reliable, but I’m not sold on him really being altruistic behind the scenes for many, many reasons.
So while I support Vetinari in the books, it just feel paradoxical how we could ever get such a leader for real.
Yes the benevolent dictator archetype only really works in fiction. Philosopher kings have been suggested as the most efficient form of government for thousands of years, but the difficulty is in finding them in the real world. We could never fully trust any would-be tyrant.
I think he’d consider that a distinction without difference. The city is the citizens.
The “proper functioning of the city” is a state of relative harmony and peace between the citizens. Most of those that found their end at his direction were rather opposed to the “proper functioning of the city”.
I surmise that much of his efforts in building the integrity of the city, and its institutions, might be said to constitute an inoculation of sorts against any “greedy and clumsy” successors.
I do like book Vetinari, purely because we do have those insights to his thought process and that as he’s a fictional character, his methods will work as intended.
As I’ve watched the representative democracy in the US make its faults very obvious, it’s got me questioning other types of leadership. Distributed power like communism or anarchism have some appealing features, but radically changing any government seems to require some form of authoritarianism to see the change through and to maintain it. That seems a lot like what Vetinari did to stabilize the city. He’s great as a fictional leader, and I think his grey areas highlight some important differences between him, and let’s say, Carrot.
Thinking we could find a real life Vetinari is what still concerns me about a political revolution, as so many real people will promise what he brought to a place like Ankh, but then instead prioritize themselves. He makes me both believe a little more that we could have a successful change in governance, but then everything in the real world reminds me it is fiction. Not impossible, but not likely as real humans are so fallible.
Discworld books feel the opposite of real life in that way. In the books, we know more of Vetinari than we do of the life of most peasants, and what we do know of those peasants, we know they fear Vetinari and think he’s kinda evil, while we the readers know he’s not. In real life, we see leaders try and present the good side, usually to con us, and be evil behind the scenes. If we saw someone acting like Vetinari, most of us would probably not support him, although Trumpism shows that to maybe not be so reliable, but I’m not sold on him really being altruistic behind the scenes for many, many reasons.
So while I support Vetinari in the books, it just feel paradoxical how we could ever get such a leader for real.
Yes the benevolent dictator archetype only really works in fiction. Philosopher kings have been suggested as the most efficient form of government for thousands of years, but the difficulty is in finding them in the real world. We could never fully trust any would-be tyrant.