Liberal in America used to refer to the progressive left, which I understand is already different than most other countries who use Liberal to refer to Classical Liberals (which we generally just call conservatives or fiscal conservatives). However, to make things even more confusing, the term now mostly refers to centrists thanks to the, “Third Way,” Democrats. They were basically a mix of more Neo-Liberal fiscal policies with more progressive social policies; Bill Clinton is the textbook example, supporting gun control and early education while gutting welfare and deregulating Wall Street. This kind of Third Way Democrat basically became the standard of the party, which therefore made them standard of American Liberals. People farther left than these Liberals started referring to themselves as progressives or leftists instead.
So, tl:dr; Liberal used to be a progressive, but now mostly means left-leaning centrist.
Liberal in this context is used to refer to the political and economic structure that is liberal democracy; not necessarily the western social definition of liberal.
Conservatives are liberals because they support the status quo that is liberal democracy
edit: this sounded like I was disagreeing with you, but I was just trying to add context so the joke was legible. I completely agree with your comment
OP is addressing both definitions.
“Liberals” (in the American bipartisan usage of the word) in the US think of themselves as the counterpart to “conservatives”, but leftists regard them both as liberals in the classical sense as mentioned.
It’s a cynical jab at the american liberal self-identity, because their self-image is primarily defined by their opposition to conservatives but this is suggesting they are actually the same.
Usually when I read “both sides are the same”, it’s a blue conservative like you trying to make people critical of the Democratic party seem unreasonable.
Both sides are capitalist and conservative, but there are differences for sure. Dont you want more differences?
If you wanna really shut up those people bitching from the sidelines, the best way to do so is to put them in the game! Force them to show us how to do things since it’s so easy and they have it all figured out.
Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans prefer?
More political parties means a higher percentage of the population is represented by their choices in the voting booth. More people involved in the electoral process, more people engaged.
Its a win win win all around for not just the people, but also for the democratic party. More people voting means more democratic votes. The numbers dont lie. So what’s the hold up blue states?
Electoral reform needs to be the number one priority for every democrat. This is a existential threat to our nation, so we must use EVERY tool at our disposal. No more waiting.
Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans prefer?
Because if we stop using FPTP but they keep using FPTP, they will win every presidential election for the rest of all time? That seriously never occurred to you? We’re splitting votes in blue states but they’re consolidating them in red states. It needs to happen everywhere at the same time.
What a terrible suggestion. Seriously, you didn’t see the huge, obvious flaw here?
Yes. In the US “liberal” means progressive for god knows why. Both the parties are liberal in the traditional sense but saying that confuses the yank mind
No, but some users on Lemmy, especially hexbear or lemmy_ml, use Liberal as a slur for Capitalist and they go on long rants about how Liberals and Nato are the devil while they touch themselves to the thought of going down on Xi Jinping.
“Hey guys, isn’t a little concerning how the vast majority of our politics have been concentrated into a very small segment of the Overton window such that the only real party disparities are an extremely small handful of key issues like abortion and gun rights?”
“Silence, cee cee pee shill!”
Sure dog. Everything is fine. Blame your insecurities on China.
This doesn’t make any sense to me. Does “Liberal” mean something different in America than UK/Europe?
Liberal in America used to refer to the progressive left, which I understand is already different than most other countries who use Liberal to refer to Classical Liberals (which we generally just call conservatives or fiscal conservatives). However, to make things even more confusing, the term now mostly refers to centrists thanks to the, “Third Way,” Democrats. They were basically a mix of more Neo-Liberal fiscal policies with more progressive social policies; Bill Clinton is the textbook example, supporting gun control and early education while gutting welfare and deregulating Wall Street. This kind of Third Way Democrat basically became the standard of the party, which therefore made them standard of American Liberals. People farther left than these Liberals started referring to themselves as progressives or leftists instead.
So, tl:dr; Liberal used to be a progressive, but now mostly means left-leaning centrist.
The only people who think liberal means progressive are 18th century monarchists and liberals
Yup, no argument here.
their “liberal” still means “neoliberal”, its just that theres not much further left than that over there.
Pretty much. Their left would be more centre/centre right anywhere else.
Not “anywhere else”. Europe, specifically. You Europeans are such narcissists. You are not the whole planet.
I’m Canadian, and it counts for Canada too.
Canada is just far western Europe.
While you’re clearly ignorant, Canada does share a border with Denmark.
Liberal in this context is used to refer to the political and economic structure that is liberal democracy; not necessarily the western social definition of liberal.
Conservatives are liberals because they support the status quo that is liberal democracy
edit: this sounded like I was disagreeing with you, but I was just trying to add context so the joke was legible. I completely agree with your comment
OP is addressing both definitions.
“Liberals” (in the American bipartisan usage of the word) in the US think of themselves as the counterpart to “conservatives”, but leftists regard them both as liberals in the classical sense as mentioned.
It’s a cynical jab at the american liberal self-identity, because their self-image is primarily defined by their opposition to conservatives but this is suggesting they are actually the same.
Leftists saying Dems and Republicans are the same
Libs insisting a slightly less bad thing is actually a good thing
Blyat
Usually when I read “both sides are the same”, it’s a blue conservative like you trying to make people critical of the Democratic party seem unreasonable.
Both sides are capitalist and conservative, but there are differences for sure. Dont you want more differences?
If you wanna really shut up those people bitching from the sidelines, the best way to do so is to put them in the game! Force them to show us how to do things since it’s so easy and they have it all figured out.
Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans prefer?
More political parties means a higher percentage of the population is represented by their choices in the voting booth. More people involved in the electoral process, more people engaged.
Its a win win win all around for not just the people, but also for the democratic party. More people voting means more democratic votes. The numbers dont lie. So what’s the hold up blue states?
Electoral reform needs to be the number one priority for every democrat. This is a existential threat to our nation, so we must use EVERY tool at our disposal. No more waiting.
Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
Because if we stop using FPTP but they keep using FPTP, they will win every presidential election for the rest of all time? That seriously never occurred to you? We’re splitting votes in blue states but they’re consolidating them in red states. It needs to happen everywhere at the same time.
What a terrible suggestion. Seriously, you didn’t see the huge, obvious flaw here?
Yes. In the US “liberal” means progressive for god knows why. Both the parties are liberal in the traditional sense but saying that confuses the yank mind
No, but some users on Lemmy, especially hexbear or lemmy_ml, use Liberal as a slur for Capitalist and they go on long rants about how Liberals and Nato are the devil while they touch themselves to the thought of going down on Xi Jinping.
This post is just pro-CCP Propoganda.
“Hey guys, isn’t a little concerning how the vast majority of our politics have been concentrated into a very small segment of the Overton window such that the only real party disparities are an extremely small handful of key issues like abortion and gun rights?”
“Silence, cee cee pee shill!”
Sure dog. Everything is fine. Blame your insecurities on China.