No no I’m talking about real unions like the German Auto Industry union Industriegewerkschaft Metall

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Metall

*.ml users will be mad about the impovements made thanks to unions instead of the failed GDR “revolution”

• Five-day work week (1959)
• Paid vacation time concessions (1962)
• 40 hr work week (1965–1967)
• Paid sick leave (1956)
• 35-hour work week in the metal industry (1995)

Trump, this is how you do tariffs properly.

1. You create an economic block that already know how to produce the product
2. you cut out outside competition of said product
3. worker unions happy, company ceo’s happy

2008 nuff said

This is news to me that the meat industry isn’t already owned by billionaires.

Classic Stazi - yes any form of criticism of Marx’s socialism must be stamped out and silenced

Thanks yes this seems to be a mistake, reading more into history I’ve even found that the push for better working conditions has come from elected social democrats and political union parties (1906 in the Netherlands) long before the Russian revolution.

Sorry I should have used effectively, being ideological about democratic centralism is nice until you find yourself organising a workers demonstration against one.

Every single piece of information Marx Lenin Mao Stalin points to: the replacement of power of any method a worker has, in a capitalist democracy and migrate it after the revolution to a state held apparatus above which the flawed democratic-centralism takes grasp to hold absolute power. At which point strengthening a secret police is all that’s needed to let fascism in from the back door. At least Mussolini stated his intentions from the beginning.

The whole mass of the people must take part in it. Otherwise, socialism will be decreed from behind a few official desks by a dozen intellectuals.

— Rosa Luxemburg

https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1918/russian-revolution/ch06.htm

Classic Marxist Leninist.

workers ownership of the means of production

Great lets try that out; how much ownership do you think a worker has over the means of production, without the ability to choose a union not pre-appointed by the state?

Communism (not DemSoc) is an economic system where a government essentially owns the population ruled by an autocrat, under the veil of a single union. The ML way of democratic centralism completely fails when the opposition is blocked from voting which assures total enforced hegemony.

Independent unions are illegal in China with only the All-China Federation of Trade Unions(ACFTU) permitted by the Chinese state and the Chinese Communist Party to operate.

This doesn’t sound like a good idea.

I take it you haven’t seen my red rose profile picture 😉

But no not as literature, I thought I’d get the foundation of Marx but took a detour on Mao do you have any recommendations?

Thanks ❤️

Yeah it would definitely help to know who downvoted or upvoted some blatantly heinous comments.

Having now been fodder to a couple of the 50c army I’m now much less inclined towards the label of Socialism so I’m not sure for the overall motives other than Cult purity.

I’ll be looking for a mbin or piefed instance now 👋

https://rdctd.pro/defense-against-cult-control-tactics/

Yes context matters and that’s indeed why I’m so puzzled for the current backing of Russian, Chinese North Korean autocrats. And the perl clutching of Leninist beliefs that Trotskyism and more democratic values are self defeating. It is Plato all over again.

Meanwhile the material conditions are completely different (even for the *.ml professional revolutionaries /j) the proletariat in more democratic countries have a stronger influence on policy than since the tsar and emperor, while mechanical barriers to reform through revolution have strengthened considerably.

Great then you would remember the blatant lies he drivels about needing an interim autocracy for a short period to transform to communism where the proletariat have ownership… oh but wait jinx we still need an overseer to fight off any imperialist attacks. The entire theory relies on the same logic of kings.

Then you have the heinous bloodlust of the killing off the bourgeois, I mean he puts it in nicer terms: saying that people of a certain capitalistic idealism must be punished and removed and that the bourgeois will stab you in the back if you make him a pauper and give him a penny. As if the bourgeois are a different race and must be eradicated.

But the proletariat will definitely have thier communist democracy just under the confines of what I want. It’s using the bait of democracy to reel in a bad kings replacement.

Yes

Have you read the Red Book?

In bad faith would be acting as if I was a Communist and then twisting the argument to undermine ML

As a user with a red rose as icon and not of a *.ml server it is on you for assuming that I am a ML.

On the other hand I find it to be bad faith to follow Russian oligarch news networks then call oneself a Communist or use the atrocities of west to bothsides or even dismiss those of countries donning the hammer and sickle.

To interject I’m really enjoying this conversation with you we’re mostly keeping things civil

While I obviously don’t have much knowledge on American history I can tell that an American ML’s opinion on even the word defence has other connotations to it.

On the other hand using said trauma as justification that military defence can not exist in other countries is an overreaction.

Yes that’s what happens when you have opinions that aren’t based directly off of one person.