this shit sucks. It has the same wavelength as jordan peterson. Maybe it is because i have lived alone and taken care of all my shit myself for a long fucking time at this point that this kind of thing deeply annoys me.
What exactly annoys you about it? You are not the target if you are not a perpetrator of unfair sharing of labour by gender standards. Why get annoyed on behalf of those that are perpetrators of this problem?
Edit: Shit just noticed the comm. Should I even be participating?
Because it has the implicit assumption of men being completely incapable of basic tasks? This is something you need to show to elementary schoolers, not a revolutionary slogan.
While I was playing Battlefield 6 yesterday after being downed instead of reviving me a grown ass man on my team dragged my character’s body into the kitchen and left it there, saying that is where I belong.
And that is absolutely horrible. My criticism isn’t that sexism and patriarchal repression don’t exist. To infer that from my point seems disingenuous. My point is that this is not a revolutionary issue. If the means of production were in the hands of a ruling party of the people tomorrow that would not effect the dynamic of deeply engrained sexism in those who are chauvinists. It is a separate issue. This flyer implies that when men pick up the slack on domestic labor suddenly they will gain a revolutionary consciousness and join the nebulous group ‘women’ in building a new world. If we wanted to have a thread discussing how culture can be changed and the next generation of boy will not harbor those same prejudices that seems good and useful, but this is just a flyer posted to a group that I would hope would be well past this point in improving themselves. Posting this here just seems like an empty gesture aimed at a stereotype.
Hmm. I think the poster is not aimed at the average man but is aimed at people who already have a revolutionary consciousness but have unaddressed issues with their own behaviour. The left, particularly in the UK at the very least, is deeply sexist.
There isnt any source to the wikimedia claim of 1919 so I really don’t know if it is.
Some reddit posts of it claims winter 1999, “direct action”, but I can’t find it in supposedly that issue (cool website! Maybe down? Try web.archive.org version of it. No. I was just linking to it with www. which didn’t work.).
My point is that this is not a revolutionary issue. If the means of production were in the hands of a ruling party of the people tomorrow that would not effect the dynamic of deeply engrained sexism in those who are chauvinists.
No, it totally is a revolutionary issue and yes, it would. First, the separation of the proletariat along geneder lines in productive and reproductive labor is a large cause of splits in our ranks and a huge obstacle to class consciousness. It’s also at the core of the fight for queer and trans Liberation.
And second the need for this separation in exploited (paid) productive labor and expropriated (unpaid) reproductive labor is not a historic accident, but a systemic necessity for capitalism to even exist. It won’t go away until the means of production are in the hands of a revolutionary peoples party, that would, in order do reach this position, need to be aware of those material facts.
Framing this purly in terms of sexism (ideology) is an idealist take. The ideology would be effected by the underlying material conditions changing, as it has historically, eg in the USSR.
implicit assumption of men being completely incapable of basic tasks
is that truly your good faith interpretation of the message here? no thoughts on the history of sexism, the objectification of women? obviously it’s criticizing how stupid and useless men are. Oh, poor men!
There are many well-meaning people with awareness of patriarchy who have yet to unpack and unlearn patriarchal gender roles, that’s the target audience of this poster’s messaging, the average western dude from 1999, as Edie pointed out. It’s less about the work itself and more about how women are overwhelmingly expected to conform to specific arbitrary work roles.
It’s pretty amazing how common this still is today. I hear from my female friends about how their partner doesn’t help with cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, etc.
this shit sucks. It has the same wavelength as jordan peterson. Maybe it is because i have lived alone and taken care of all my shit myself for a long fucking time at this point that this kind of thing deeply annoys me.
What exactly annoys you about it? You are not the target if you are not a perpetrator of unfair sharing of labour by gender standards. Why get annoyed on behalf of those that are perpetrators of this problem?
Edit: Shit just noticed the comm. Should I even be participating?
I’ll update the sidebar to clarify but anyone is welcome to participate in discussions here
Because it has the implicit assumption of men being completely incapable of basic tasks? This is something you need to show to elementary schoolers, not a revolutionary slogan.
While I was playing Battlefield 6 yesterday after being downed instead of reviving me a grown ass man on my team dragged my character’s body into the kitchen and left it there, saying that is where I belong.
ⓘ 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘶𝘴𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘶𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘰𝘧 𝘣𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢 𝘤𝘢𝘵. 𝘗𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘴𝘶𝘴𝘱𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘰𝘶𝘴 𝘣𝘦𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘪𝘰𝘳.
Can I steal your signature idea?
☭ 𝙈𝙖𝙧𝙜 𝙗𝙖𝙧 𝙖𝙢𝙧𝙞𝙆𝙆𝙆𝙖, 𝙢𝙖𝙧𝙜 𝙗𝙖𝙧 𝙞𝙎𝙎𝙧𝙖𝙚𝙡 ☪☫
Forum signatures and custom pronouns are the only thing Hexbear is missing IMO
This is the best fucking banner signature I’ve ever seen
And that is absolutely horrible. My criticism isn’t that sexism and patriarchal repression don’t exist. To infer that from my point seems disingenuous. My point is that this is not a revolutionary issue. If the means of production were in the hands of a ruling party of the people tomorrow that would not effect the dynamic of deeply engrained sexism in those who are chauvinists. It is a separate issue. This flyer implies that when men pick up the slack on domestic labor suddenly they will gain a revolutionary consciousness and join the nebulous group ‘women’ in building a new world. If we wanted to have a thread discussing how culture can be changed and the next generation of boy will not harbor those same prejudices that seems good and useful, but this is just a flyer posted to a group that I would hope would be well past this point in improving themselves. Posting this here just seems like an empty gesture aimed at a stereotype.
Hmm. I think the poster is not aimed at the average man but is aimed at people who already have a revolutionary consciousness but have unaddressed issues with their own behaviour. The left, particularly in the UK at the very least, is deeply sexist.
Also as context, the poster seems to originally be from
1919.Edit: seems its actually from 1999. See below for more info
ⓘ 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘶𝘴𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘶𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘰𝘧 𝘣𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢 𝘤𝘢𝘵. 𝘗𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘴𝘶𝘴𝘱𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘰𝘶𝘴 𝘣𝘦𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘪𝘰𝘳.
Thanks for digging this up. Added to the OP
Please update the year to 1999
ⓘ 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘶𝘴𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘶𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘰𝘧 𝘣𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢 𝘤𝘢𝘵. 𝘗𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘴𝘶𝘴𝘱𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘰𝘶𝘴 𝘣𝘦𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘪𝘰𝘳.
There isnt any source to the wikimedia claim of 1919 so I really don’t know if it is.
Some reddit posts of it claims winter 1999, “direct action”, but I can’t find it in supposedly that issue (cool website!
Maybe down? Try web.archive.org version of it.No. I was just linking to it withwww.which didn’t work.).Edit 3: turns out my mobile PDF view was cutting off half of the page. It is indeed in the 1999 winter edition of direct action. Source found!!
Edit: Im with this one redditor, I cannot find anything substantial on this poster
Edit 2: I can source it back to at least before 2004. Likely 2002. Since these are recreations.
ⓘ 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘶𝘴𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘶𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘰𝘧 𝘣𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢 𝘤𝘢𝘵. 𝘗𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘴𝘶𝘴𝘱𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘰𝘶𝘴 𝘣𝘦𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘪𝘰𝘳.
No, it totally is a revolutionary issue and yes, it would. First, the separation of the proletariat along geneder lines in productive and reproductive labor is a large cause of splits in our ranks and a huge obstacle to class consciousness. It’s also at the core of the fight for queer and trans Liberation.
And second the need for this separation in exploited (paid) productive labor and expropriated (unpaid) reproductive labor is not a historic accident, but a systemic necessity for capitalism to even exist. It won’t go away until the means of production are in the hands of a revolutionary peoples party, that would, in order do reach this position, need to be aware of those material facts.
Framing this purly in terms of sexism (ideology) is an idealist take. The ideology would be effected by the underlying material conditions changing, as it has historically, eg in the USSR.
is that truly your good faith interpretation of the message here? no thoughts on the history of sexism, the objectification of women? obviously it’s criticizing how stupid and useless men are. Oh, poor men!
I posted my thoughts else where in the thread. You are being disingenuous in your interpretation. I am not saying ‘oh poor men’.
There are many well-meaning people with awareness of patriarchy who have yet to unpack and unlearn patriarchal gender roles, that’s the target audience of this poster’s messaging, the average western dude from 1999, as Edie pointed out. It’s less about the work itself and more about how women are overwhelmingly expected to conform to specific arbitrary work roles.
It’s pretty amazing how common this still is today. I hear from my female friends about how their partner doesn’t help with cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, etc.
how do you get angry at a poster that’s about being nice to women… honestly your comment makes it seem like you didn’t even look at it
I didn’t get angry. I became disappointed realizing that this is the level of discourse we are at here.