• commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    4 months ago

    it’s fine to value consent. but it’s absurd to talk about consent from something incapable of it.

    • AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      4 months ago

      If a dog is excited to see you, and trying their best to chase your hands with their head, is that not a form of the dog giving you consent for pets? Animals to some limited degree can give consent for things like that at least. But most other things, if they can’t give consent then you should assume that you shouldn’t do the thing.

      A chicken has eggs for their own reasons. They can’t give consent to give them away, but be realistic - do you really think there’s a chance that a hen would consent to you taking what she believes are going to be her children? They are not yours to take. Why is my position of respecting consent and not exploiting animals absurd, as compared to concluding wholesale that they just can’t give consent and therefor… what? Do we just do whatever we want to them?

      • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 months ago

        They can’t give consent to give them away, but be realistic - do you really think there’s a chance that a hen would consent to you taking what she believes are going to be her children?

        she would need to believe that. i have no evidence that chickens believe their eggs to be their children.

        • AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          4 months ago

          You don’t need to know what a chicken believes to recognize that their behaviours indicate they do not want others to steal their eggs.

          • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            4 months ago

            as far as i know, chickens don’t recognize property claims. they cannot possibly have a moral opposition or even a personal revulsion toward theft.

            • anticarnist@vegantheoryclub.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              4 months ago

              Let’s say they don’t recognize property claims. Why does that then make it right for you to take their eggs?

              Many say the native Americans didn’t understand the European concept of owning land (property claim). I’m not sure whether that’s true, but if it were would that then mean it was okay for Europeans to take their land?

              Your logic doesn’t make sense to me. “They can’t say ‘no’ and they probably don’t understand property so I’ll just go ahead and do what I want.” Lame

              • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                3 months ago

                Why does that then make it right for you to take their eggs?

                i’m saying there is no reason it’s not ok to take the eggs, and recognition of property rights can’t possibly be a good reason not to do so. it’s possible there is some reason, but it can’t be that the chickens think the eggs belong to them, since there is no evidence for that claim.

      • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 months ago

        Why is my position of respecting consent and not exploiting animals absurd,

        i think it’s fine to oppose exploitation. it’s absurd to premise that opposition on consent.

        • AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          4 months ago

          I wouldn’t say that I premise exploitation on consent. Afterall I’m being exploited at a minimum wage job, and that is something that I more or less consented to.

          But in the case of animals, consent has to play a significant role, because a core part of their oppression is the complete absence of their bodily autonomy. There is a great deal of intersectionality between women’s rights and non-human animal’s rights.

          https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Sexual_Politics_of_Meat.html?id=aU28CgAAQBAJ

          • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            3 months ago

            I wouldn’t say that I premise exploitation on consent.

            i’m saying you premise your opposition to exploitation on consent. and i’m saying that’s absurd.

            • AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              3 months ago

              I wouldn’t say that consent is the premise of my opposition, just one important component of it. I don’t remember this discussion so well anymore, but earlier you had pointed out that exploited workers often do consent to their exploitation - and I would agree that exploitation can occur even with consent.