- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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I didn’t like her purchase and manipulation of the Democrat party, and abrogating the democratic process in denying the people their choice of Bernie Sanders.
But hey, let’s not quibble about words.
Yeah, from my perspective, it failed long before that. The Democrats couldn’t achieve their true objective if they had allowed Bernie to be elected, which was to give the illusion of a better option while ensuring that the status quo isn’t affected where it relates to power and wealth.
Bernie was blocked for the same reason Biden isn’t trying to block Israel from destroying Palestine.
And now we have a convicted felon poised to be dictator.
Such a wide open door to walk through, and our broken incestuous Democrat party couldn’t get their shit together enough to run a candidate who can talk.
DON’T BLAME THE VOTERS.
deleted by creator
Well, those voters shouldn’t have been such fucking short sighted morons then.
Voters? How about the Democratic party? You’re telling me there isn’t a compelling candidate in the entire fucking United States of America?
There aren’t any that corporations can get behind.
The democrats don’t care, as long as they don’t offend their base. And then doing any sort of legit challenge/change/effort, would offend that base.
The average democratic voter is incredibly complacent and happy with the status quo in this country.
They don’t really care too much about their base. It’s really their donors and themselves that they care about. The donors and the important people in the democratic party are very rich, so a Trump dictatorship would merely be an inconvenience and embarrassment to them. If it really got bad they’d move to another country and try to gain support as the legitimate government in exile.
So… People tell me an election year is no time to talk about electoral reform. Every US election year. But! After the election, they scurry away under the refrigerator and stay there for 4 years. I know you have to hold your nose while you vote this time, but catch these weird centrists before they disappear and hold their feet to the fire to influence change. You deserve better than this “I’m not voting for _, I’m voting against _” nonsense. Your government is hurting all of us. Stop it, please.
Who has told you not to talk about electoral reform in an election year? I’ve never heard that.
On top of that, there are plenty of people who are working to change our election system the whole time. The problem is the “I hate the two party system!” People by and large just vote every few years. I work with some locally that are trying to change things from the ground up.
I wanted to reply in a way you would see. Your question is valid and I don’t believe you deserve the downvotes.
Stop it. Just stop it. The fascist weirdo vs. the just sort of regular weirdo is how you do elections? We are all beholden to US policy and you think this is a joke?
Fucking fuck the fuck out of the fuck. Change it. Stop it. Please!
“Make your country stronger so you’re not beholden to the us! Omg your country is such crap.”
This is what you sound like, btw. It’s just shitting on America and Americans, you aren’t really saying anything productive.
Honey, the right is galvanizing globally and we all have work to do. I am passionate about avoiding catastrophy and it sounds like we might have at least that in common. Peace.
If you think we should be galvanizing, why attack me? Why shit on me and my country? You’re “peace” rings very hollow right now.
I didn’t think I was attacking you. Maybe there is a cultural barrier, but I swear I meant no offense. I thought my silly use of the language was in fun. Peace, please.
Ugh, Facebook people, mostly. And thank you for being the change you want to see in the world.
I mean yeah that’s true but it’s not like Trump is gonna be pro-palestine.
If anything he is gonna be even more pro-israel because it’s a white supremacist colony.
it’s not like Trump is gonna be pro-palestine
Trump loves Netanyahu for doing in Israel what he wants to do in the US.
Biden loves Israel because he’s bought all the Only Liberal Democracy In The Middle East propaganda they’ve been spewing for decades.
But if you’re a college student getting your head cracked by a SWAT team storming the Columbia campus, Biden is the one asking for your vote. Trump is asking for the SWAT guy’s vote.
And that’s why Trump is going to win. The SWAT guy is going to turn out for Trump while the protester spends the day in the ER.
I’m actually surprised we haven’t heard Trump talking about nuking Gaza yet.
Bad take.
You get genocide either way; one is a guy trying to stop the genocide that’s been negotiating behind the scenes for months (and yes, also giving the Israelis arms), and the other guy wants to accelerate the genocide while also ending democracy.
one is a guy trying to stop the genocide that’s been negotiating behind the scenes for months
I don’t believe you. Or more accurately, I don’t believe the alleged “leaks” from the White House about how mad Joe Biden is but it’s behind closed doors just trust me bro. This guy has been hard in the pocket for Israel his entire career, why wouldn’t he be now?
Mostly because Netanyahu has been souring on Biden real fast. Biden held up a delivery of bombs to Israel back in May, citing Israel’s plans to bomb Rafah. Netanyahu announced he was pushing forward anyway, and there was a big public spat about it. That sort of thing has been happening since Oct 7.
I mean one could say it’s all an act or something, but that strains credulity to me.
I’m not saying Biden is doing great here, I’d much prefer he take Bernie Sanders’ advice on this and stop weapon deliveries altogether. But it’s certainly fair to assess that Biden wants the genocide to stop, but is not doing enough to stop it.
Which is a de facto admission he knows Israel is committing war crimes with the weapons and that he has the power to stop military aid at any time.
This is Student Loans all over again where his cult says he can’t do it, because he doesn’t have that power. And then he does it.
Edit to add, he also released those bombs to Israel something like last week?
Which is a de facto admission he knows Israel is committing war crimes with the weapons and that he has the power to stop military aid at any time.
So your take is what. If we don’t start bombing Israel ourselves we’re supporting genocide? It’s a real moving goalpost, almost as if no action by any president would be enough. Almost like this originated from the Trump camp like all the other misinformation.
Nothing disgusts me more than seeing how Americans find some excuse to HATE every Democrat LOVE every Republican, even over issues where the latter is lightyears worse than the former.
I’m sorry, how do you come to the conclusion that I want to bomb Gaza at all? Not everything is a partisan operation. War crimes are bad, full stop.
In 2020 the left was told to vote for Biden and pressure him. Now that he’s signed the most conservative immigration policy since Operation Wetback, and is supplying a genocide, suddenly it’s all, “jk we never meant for you to actually pressure him!”
You did it again. Dodging the question. Again. You KNOW there’s no clean answer to the Israel situation. You’re blaming Biden for walking a highwire nobody would have walked better. And you seem to know it because you won’t address the question head-on.
…and then you change topic.
So at this point, you concede that Biden is as pro-Palestine as is reasonably possible? Or are you just going to keep spreading the Russian propaganda?
I answered your grade school attempt to box me in with an assumed premise. And better would be to at the very least, condition military aid on the effective distribution of food aid to Gazans.
It’s not the leaks, it’s the fact that Anthony Blinken has been holding talks in Cairo to try and negotiate a peace settlement.
It’s not a bad take. The post didn’t imply that there was a no-Genocide option
You read the word OR in there?
Did it say AND ? NO. It said OR.
The post absofuckinglutely strongly implied there was a no-genocide option.
No it didn’t. That’s just the way you read it.
Bad take.
It’s a return2ozma post. Of course it’s a bad take.
Or. Just maybe. We could actually care enough to pressure Biden.
No? Just going to shove your head in the ground and pretend politics is an immutable object?
I can’t imagine why Biden was already in so much polling trouble. It can’t possibly be the cult like atmosphere around him preventing him from contacting reality.
…And exactly, EXACTLY, how do you pressure him in a way that doesn’t actively risk making things far, far worse, not just in Israel, but here in the US as well? Because if your answer is, “don’t vote for him”, well, congrats, you’re going to make things worse.
You let them know. You don’t just sit on it. The one thing that will move a politician is knowing they can’t get elected again if they keep doing something. By throwing “But Trump!” at us, no matter how obliquely, you’re just protecting a genocide.
Are you not reading anything you just wrote?
one thing that will move a politician is knowing they can’t get elected again
If you do that with Biden, that means that Trump gets elected, and shit gets a whole helluva lot worse. Not just in Palestine, but everywhere. Of course, you’re going to say that I’m "throwing ‘But Trump!’ at you, but that’s not me - that’s the system that we live in.
You have a functionally binary choice. You can try to minimize damage, or not.
It’s your choice whether you, personally, do what you are capable of doing to minimize damage. And I hope that you have the intestinal fortitude to tell your LGBTQ+ friends to their face what you did, and why you did it, if it all goes the way I expect it will.
It Is Not a binary choice. First of all, Biden can still change course. Second Biden can be replaced. It is not a choice between Trump and blindly supporting whatever warm body is in opposition to him.
Functionally binary.
Bullshit.
Yes, he’ll learn a lot by not being in office anymore. Then someone else will have the power to aid Isreal explicitly to carry out a genocide. But Biden will know. He’ll never hold office again , but hay. He’ll know. As the Supreme Court sactions the legalism of a Trump dictatorship and approve a continuation of the Japanese Internment Act. Expanded to all the other not-white people. Just as they argued during his first term, but Biden will know. Biden will have learned his lesson. While he has no political power of any kind. And when they’re shoving people in trucks and on boats without sufficient supplies to be dummped into places they aren’t from and have no resources to survive, and Biden will be sitting at home having fully learned his lesson.
It Is Not a binary choice. First of all, Biden can still change course. Second Biden can be replaced. It is not a choice between Trump and blindly supporting whatever warm body is in opposition to him.
Israel controls one of the largest political lobbies in America. No president who goes against the interests of the Israeli government will ever be elected until this changes.
AIPAC has only won one house race this year, and that was an already vulnerable incumbent. They’re nothing like titans like the NRA.
Ah yes. The insular Biden cult. I don’t know how deluded you need to be to buy this. No one, Not one person is in a cult of personality for Unkie Joe. No one. Why do you think this?
Says one of two people that have showed up to frame this as an either/or problem we can’t possibly even try to tackle. It’s either commit genocide or lose our democracy. No possible other option, especially after a disastrous debate that confirmed fears of age related mental decline.
The president isn’t actually running the entire county himself, Biden’s government isn’t fundamentally different from Obama’s, Trump also, very obviously from his first term, didn’t have much involvement at all in his government. The appointments, the policies his government focus on is a very big deal. Which 80 year old napping from 12pm to 5pm and going to bed, is not the difference that matters.
The president isn’t actually running the entire county himself, Biden’s government isn’t fundamentally different from Obama’s, Trump also, very obviously from his first term, didn’t have much involvement at all in his government. The appointments, the policies his government focus on is a very big deal. Which 80 year old napping from 12pm to 5pm and going to bed, is not the difference that matters.
So let’s just get rid of the position then? Hey all those fortune 500 companies don’t need CEOs either right? This is not the argument you seek.
Although I noticed you edited your comment to make my last reply look out of context.Edit - haha I confused the two places they replied to me. The rest is relevant though.
It’s difficult to defend the idea that Biden has been trying to end the genocide. He’s had that power from day 1. If you give Israel a bullet, you have solid awareness that there is a good chance it will be used against a non-combatant. That’s hard reality. If Biden was not supportive of genocide he would place an embargo on the weapons being poured into the massacre. He also wouldn’t sanction the ICC when they attempted to call out the primary actors in the genocide. He has given enabling support to the campaign in multiple ways.
Biden is not a good man as he is portrayed, he is complex obviously, but the reality is that Hitler still petted his dog and was nice to his friends and family. Biden should be joining Netanyahu at the Hague, not sabotaging democracy by being virtually un-electable while at the same time working to make it even more obvious that the international order is only there to punish certain war criminals.
Anyway, I think the take is pretty on point.
He’s had that power from day 1
Not as such, no. When congress appropriates funds, the president is legally obligated to disburse those funds for the purpose that they were appropriated for. This is a law, and it’s not something that’s up for debate. That was part of the underlying crime that Trump was first impeached for; he attempted to withhold funds corruptly. Could he have vetoed that? Sure. It also would have vetoed funding for Ukraine though. (And, just pointing out here that Trump would have vetoed assistance for Ukraine, while helping Israel kill more Palestinians faster.)
You can–and should–condemn his rhetoric, because he has been supportive of Israel waging war in Gaza. But he’s also been working behind the scenes, trying to negotiate a peace that Hamas will accept, and that Israel will accept. Even when he’s supporting Israel in public, it’s been clear that he’s been working to negotiate a truce.
This is a law
The US also has laws against providing arms to military units that have been credibly accused of war crimes, but in Israel (also Ukraine) they simply don’t investigate allegations in order to keep the arms flowing. If Biden wants a legal casus belli to deny Israel arms, he has many to choose from, but he is actively choosing not to employ them.
He would need some kind of finding of fact in the US to support that, and that hasn’t happened AFAIK yet. The ICC has made that finding, but it wouldn’t be legally supportable to use that finding to withhold appropriated funding.
You mean like our intelligence agencies finding Israel’s claims to be “low confidence”
The literal second he tells the CIA to hand him the unedited file it’s over.
Yeah the US isn’t even a member of the ICC.
In fact the US is so NOT a member of the ICC that it’s currently federal law that if a US soldier was being held at the Hague, the US military would be obligated to invade The Netherlands in order to recover them
“What part of rules for thee but not for me don’t you get?”
The Leahy Law and Foreign Assistance Act make sending that aid illegal, no matter how much Congress appropriates.
Leahy Law and Foreign Assistance Act
Read up on that. There would need to be a finding of fact by the relevant US embassy and departments within the gov’t before this comes into play. Without that, that act is irrelevant to Biden attempting to withhold aid.
Could Biden direct the ambassador and relevant department heads to investigate so that he could legally withhold aid? Yes, he could. Should he? Also yes. But it’s not something the president can do unilaterally. Despite SCOTUS’ attempt to make it so, the president was never intended to be the sole sovereign of the country.
Oh? Then what authority did he have to withhold the plane bombs?
This is student loans all over again. You guys are going to shout that he can’t do that right up until he does it.
The Leahy Law in text -
No assistance shall be furnished under this Act or the Arms Export Control Act to any unit of the security forces of a foreign country if the Secretary of State has credible information that such unit has committed a gross violation of human rights.
All he has to do is open a fucking newspaper. You’d have us believe he is deaf, dumb, and blind.
Didn’t we have a whole impeachment about a president preventing arms that were allocated by Congress from going to their destination? Oh yeah that was Trump trying to get some election fuckery from Ukraine. Granted, the election aspect was another level on it but that is functionally the same thing you’re demanding Biden do which was already determined to not be ok. President doesn’t have that power so maybe instead of wondering why Biden isn’t fixing the thing all on his own, we can start (or continue if you were ever paying attention between presidential elections) pressuring and replacing the Congress critters that are actually approving the sale of arms to continue the genocide. Why does everyone keep getting big man deluded when we know for a fact that the president isn’t a king with total control?
Uhhh and today the SCOTUS decided that Trump can never be prosecuted for anything he did or will do whilst president, so actually, democracy died today. Biden won’t abuse this. Trump will, and there will be nothing to stop him from enacting his dictator plans. About that, and the political assassinations, and the president for life, I think Trump is serious.
The DNC signed it’s death warrant with that one. Bernie got screwed. We got Trump. The Supreme Court just handed Trump ultimate supreme dictator status. We all know Biden doesn’t have the balls to do anything about it and he certainly isn’t going to win the election.
As long as the R’s can get 40 seats in the Senate this fall the great experiment finally fails.
One thing you got wrong is that Bernie got screwed. He got demolished by Clinton, by 12% points and millions of votes. It wasn’t even close. Democrats wanted Clinton, and the major complaints about the DNC during the primary was that they said nasty things about him in an email and gave her some debate questions. That’s it. It made no difference in the outcome.
Am I the only one that remember wieserman-sholtz getting successfully sued over that? I swear this country has the memory of an 81 year old president.
Nah, this dude is just lying their asses off for some reason. I get voting for the lesser of two evils, I mean I voted for Clinton as well. But, apparently there are still ride or die Clinton heads out here still sucking down the copium.
What are you referring to, exactly?
Only after the rest of the moderate candidates were convinced to drop out before the debate and voting… Sanders would have likely won the primaries if there were more moderates on the ticket to split the vote.
So you’re saying because the winner was someone more representative of who the average Democrat voted, sanders got screwed.
No, I’m saying that the DNC has the responsibility to remain impartial, and when it doesn’t, it’s not surprising that the candidate they decide deserves to be president loses.
They didn’t decide. The people voted for Clinton and then Biden, overwhelmingly. Because that’s the type of candidate they believe they want. Remember, sanders didnt drop out, he lost. Overwhelmingly so.
Because that’s the type of candidate they believe they want.
Guessing you’ve never heard of the term “manufacturing consent”?
Are you pretending that’s been your argument up to this point?
Btw, why didn’t you point out that both of them backtracked the comments?
The DNC signed it’s death warrant with that one.
Bernie refused to join the DNC. He was doing his usual pump&dump dirty pool of winning a Primary and refusing the nomination so that the Democrats wouldn’t be able to run anyone in the general.
Bernie got screwed
…because he couldn’t get as many votes. None of that superdelegate bullshit people are talking about came to pass. He just wasn’t popular enough among a party he refused to be a member of. Go figure.
What new decision did SCOTUS make?
Absolute immunity for all official acts by a president, whether technically within their power or not. It’s now possible Trump cannot be held accountable for his attempted coup because he did it as the sitting president - because SCOTUS implied it’s Constitutional for him to attempt to overthrow the government.
People who think our presidential elections are only recently fucked up are morons. Since basically day 1 the politics and seedyness and bullshit going on behind the scenes has always been insane.
There’s some kind of narcissistic selfishness that constantly has a need for THIS time, OUR time to be the worst ever.
I mean, for the majority of the country’s history, huge portions of its population had literally no democracy due to no right to vote. But I guess we’ll ignore that.
We had portions of our history that were rocky as hell due to shifting balances of power between the federal branches, especially in the first 100 years.
We literally had a fucking civil war.
It’s always so interesting to me how people just ignore how bad it’s always been, and how many times the country did not, in fact, literally end, and yet they STILL gin up end of the country fearmongering constantly in every election cycle.
None of this is truly new.
I mean, for the majority of the country’s history, huge portions of its population had literally no democracy due to no right to vote. But I guess we’ll ignore that.
Don’t forget the millions of felons who still don’t. In Florida they passed a direct referendum to give them their franchise back, but the state government employed legal fuckery to prevent it from working as intended.
Yes good point. And how many were incorrectly prisoned, or it’s for kind of stupid offenses that don’t warrant such a right being taken away.
They said most influential in the past 100 years, the civil war was 160 years ago.
100 years ago everyone had the right to vote (though Jim Crow laws limited voting access in many states for people of color, something that’s beginning to be reimplemented to an extent).
I think FDR might have been more influential, but he won in a landslide. Trump got millions fewer votes than his opponent and only won by a couple thousand votes in certain swing states. I think in the past 100 years it was probably the most influential presidential election in the sense that so few votes held so much influence on history.
I think the biggest factor is we have media covering everything 24/7 and when the smallest little detail comes out about something bad it’s blown way up and made to be a huge deal. It’s easy to get sucked into thinking we are in the worst point of history. No political figure can take a shit without some news outlet telling us that’s where they were plotting to blow up the entire world.
I wouldn’t say they ignore it, it’s just that they’re too stupid to realize it, or they simply never learned/forgot American history from school.
That doesn’t mean it’s going to be fun to live through.
Viva la Gilded Age!
The quiet part is out loud now and the dems are acting just as fascist as they yell at us that only they can save us from fascists.
“Keep quiet or Ill turn this democracy around, so help me God!”
If from 2 choices 1 means the death of democracy, the democracy is already dead. That was already true back then. I hate this post because I completly bushes over that fact and is only there to guilt trip people who want real change outside the 2 party system.
Vote D, and also do your v-for-vendetta shenanigans. No reason not to do both if you’re all in.
It’s more like it’s in a coma right now. It’s not responding to stimulus, but there are signs of life. Theoretically if democrats win decisively, the Republican party could be forced to move to the center to become electable again.
But, if the Republicans win, it could be the end of democracy in the US. The Republicans know the odds of their winning another free and fair election are near zero, so their best bet to stay in power is to make sure they don’t have to face any more free and fair elections.
Despite all the chaos, despite the Republicans attempting to kill the democratic process, the Biden administration has actually managed quite a few meaningful and positive things. He’s not a very inspiring option as “leader of the free world”, but as someone who sits at the head of the table and delegates things out, his record is pretty good. But, it’s pretty damning that the system has Americans choosing between a criminal fascist, and an old man who probably won’t last 4 years.
No, no, I was assured Hillary Clinton was Basically The Same as Trump and Both Sides Were Bad.
What’s happening in Gaza now has been happening a long time, as President Carter said people weren’t demanding change or horrified in general because ‘‘they don’t know, they don’t want to know’’. The passive approval has been there a long long time. Biden may actually respond to pressure, Trump will be directed by his evangelical base to stoke all out unilateral war, and he’ll approve it.
Nothing here is simple, Biden doesn’t control Isreal, and neither will Trump or anyone else, Trump used ‘Palestinian’ as a slur, an insult. He also expressed his stance against Biden as Biden not aiding Isreal MORE. Who do you think is going to effect change in the direction of ending the genocide?
If you’re against the genocide, why in the world would you let the very pro genocide candidate win?
He can absolutely stop giving them half their ammunition and ordnance. Seems like a lot less Palestinians would die in that case.
We’re still doing ‘I don’t like his vibes’.
Y—…you guys think Israel being an apartheid state is less than 8 years old?
That’s not what this is saying, no.
My point is, you think this Israel situation hasn’t been on the ballot our entire lives? Because it always has been. Things have gotten worse, sure. But the US has been supporting Israel’s abuse of the Palestinian people, with our votes, since we’ve had the chance to vote. This isn’t new. It’s always been this situation, it’s just changed back and forth between bad and worse.
What? This was never partisan. It’s the West’s parking lot for bombs next to nuclear Iran. When TF was a presidential candidate running on defunding Israel? Nobody ever cared about Palestinians here. And if not for foreign troll farms sparking conflict, they still wouldn’t. Show me one protester who can point to another genocide on a world map right now.
…how are you guys not getting that that is my exact point? If this election it’s on the ballot, it’s always been on the ballot. Everyone youve ever voted into office has had their hands in the Israel shit bucket. Our support is not new. What they’re doing the Palestinians is not new. You guys just weren’t paying attention to it before. The tweet implies 8 years ago we didn’t have these problems…but we did. Because everyone you’ve ever voted into office has blood on their hands. The choice is no different this election than it was 8, 12, 16, 24 etc years ago. The only new addition is the overt fascist.
Perhaps in some primaries you had the odd candidate here and there who opposed continued weapons sales to Israel, but the presidential election has absolutely not had it ‘on the the ballot’ because that would imply you had one candidate who had a significantly different stance on the issue to the other.
…by that logic, it’s not on the ballot this time either.
Correct.
Indeed
Wait what tricked me into saying that. Absolutely not indeed, I firmly believe that whatever democrat hand were to lie on the tiller, you’d have a policy that at least had the goal of minimising the loss of Palestinian life, even if that goal proved too difficult to negotiate well. I do not believe the same of Trump - I think his callous disregard for everyone other than himself is absolutely evident. So I think if that is an issue to you and you agree with my base truths, then I think it is on the ballot.
Israel is an apartheid state? How?
Things could be different but they’re not
Sudan?
If it doesn’t have a large social media campaign it doesn’t exist.
