Remarkable how ignorant of their own bible the teetotalling Christians are. Without refrigeration grape juice becomes unsafe to drink quickly. Fermenting it was the only way it would keep. Also in 1 Tim 3:8 mentions to not have men as deacons if they’re “addicted to much wine”, clearly showing this was not grape juice they’re talking about.
It’s even more directly stated, and specifically about the wine Jesus made. After he turned water into wine, the guests were specifically remarking that hosts generally feed their guests good wine early in the night and pull out cheaper wine after the guests are drunk and can’t tell the difference… But in this case they saved the best for last.
This is great because it also is a counter point to the argument that some preachers say to the youth about it being DRUNKENNESS that god doesn’t like.
Nope, not intrinsically, because Jesus lit up a party full of ALREADY drunk people with more booze.
Well the Bible is clear that drunkenness is a sin. It’s stated many times, old and new testament, and without a doubt it’s a problem for a lot of people. But the wedding party wine is a good example that there’s no issue with having a party and people drinking, and as you said, Jesus supplies more wine after they run out. He didn’t feel the need to police everyone.
I disagree that the bible is clear that it’s a sin. It’s murky at best.
There are many warnings of being drunk leading to other sins. I think it’s implied that routine drunkenness inevitably at least leads to sloth. I think there is an important distinction between “getting drunk” and “being a drunkard”.
It’s pretty clear Paul wasn’t a fan.
But like, Paul wasn’t the Christ. Paul can hate all he wants but the fact remains that Jesus got a party full of people who were ALREADY drunk MORE DRUNK.
So, either Christ will himself tempt others into sin or it isn’t a sin.
I think it’s important to consider the position on temptation. If your hand causes you to sin, it’s better to cut it off kinda thing. If getting drunk leads you to sin, you shouldn’t get drunk.
In the same way that nobody in the bible or in the same realms of the living would suggest preemptively cutting off the hands and gouging out the eyes at birth to ensure no sins caused by those body parts, it’s similarly reasonable to not take a same blanket preemptive stance on getting drunk.
I’d never stop someone from making a personal choice not to drink, for literally any reason. I’m pretty wary of anyone who says the bible is “clear” on what is and isn’t a sin, though.
The definition of sin is the most boring and inconsequential part of the Christian faith and it’s such a shame how many Christians are exclusively obsessed with it.
I went to a church when I was a kid that taught that wine was completely non-alcoholic in biblical times.
Remarkable how ignorant of their own bible the teetotalling Christians are. Without refrigeration grape juice becomes unsafe to drink quickly. Fermenting it was the only way it would keep. Also in 1 Tim 3:8 mentions to not have men as deacons if they’re “addicted to much wine”, clearly showing this was not grape juice they’re talking about.
It’s even more directly stated, and specifically about the wine Jesus made. After he turned water into wine, the guests were specifically remarking that hosts generally feed their guests good wine early in the night and pull out cheaper wine after the guests are drunk and can’t tell the difference… But in this case they saved the best for last.
This is great because it also is a counter point to the argument that some preachers say to the youth about it being DRUNKENNESS that god doesn’t like.
Nope, not intrinsically, because Jesus lit up a party full of ALREADY drunk people with more booze.
Well the Bible is clear that drunkenness is a sin. It’s stated many times, old and new testament, and without a doubt it’s a problem for a lot of people. But the wedding party wine is a good example that there’s no issue with having a party and people drinking, and as you said, Jesus supplies more wine after they run out. He didn’t feel the need to police everyone.
I disagree that the bible is clear that it’s a sin. It’s murky at best.
There are many warnings of being drunk leading to other sins. I think it’s implied that routine drunkenness inevitably at least leads to sloth. I think there is an important distinction between “getting drunk” and “being a drunkard”.
It’s pretty clear Paul wasn’t a fan.
But like, Paul wasn’t the Christ. Paul can hate all he wants but the fact remains that Jesus got a party full of people who were ALREADY drunk MORE DRUNK.
So, either Christ will himself tempt others into sin or it isn’t a sin.
I think it’s important to consider the position on temptation. If your hand causes you to sin, it’s better to cut it off kinda thing. If getting drunk leads you to sin, you shouldn’t get drunk.
In the same way that nobody in the bible or in the same realms of the living would suggest preemptively cutting off the hands and gouging out the eyes at birth to ensure no sins caused by those body parts, it’s similarly reasonable to not take a same blanket preemptive stance on getting drunk.
I’d never stop someone from making a personal choice not to drink, for literally any reason. I’m pretty wary of anyone who says the bible is “clear” on what is and isn’t a sin, though.
The definition of sin is the most boring and inconsequential part of the Christian faith and it’s such a shame how many Christians are exclusively obsessed with it.