If you think saying that governments and corporations being “overwhemingly more responsible” is shifting “all” the blame away, then idk what to tell you. Because it is a factually correct statement. They have more power and control than any of us. It doesn’t mean personal choices don’t play into it, nor does it come off to me as pretending that’s the case. I don’t get the idea of seeing people rightfully complaining about our demonstrably shit leadership, and feeling the urge to claim that people are shifting blame. I really don’t get it.

It isn’t shifting blame to talk about the biggest contributors to the problem. I don’t understand why people always feel the need to pretend like we’re saying “hey guys, don’t take any personal responsibility. Its not our fault!”

People talk about it because what else are we supposed to do? I don’t eat meat. I don’t drive a car. I’m sure its true for a decent number of other people. But how many more concessions do individuals have to make? How will we control what other individuals do? We can’t. Clearly. Like the example you gave about the people who come to vegan threads. How am I supposed to change their minds? How are any of us? There needs to be real systemic changes that directly affect the corporations and entities responsible for this, as well as us.

Yes, people love cars. Is it because they are addicted consumerists? Yes. But also because of a concerted and incredibly successful effort on behalf of automobile and fossil fuel corporations to lobby for car based infrastructure, and to spread propaganda that would inevitably lead to cars being seen as symbols of freedom.

People consume meat and dairy by the truckloads. But, again, how many campaigns were led by the companies producing this food to overblow its health benefits? Got Milk?

Do we place all the blame on the addict and none on the dealer? Especially when the dealer has more power than anyone else on the planet?

So what do we do then? Say nothing? Don’t complain? Just hope that someday people will just decide we are right? That they will undo literal decades of brainwashing and complacency because we believe in the power of personal responsibility?

Can’t we just talk shit about the horrible disgusting shit the corporations have done and will doubtlessly continue to do, without someone assuming we just want to laze around, buy thing, and leave the problem to solve itself?

It always sucks when this sort of thing happens. Sorry man.

Just say you care about money more than people. It’s quicker and easier to ignore you than when you sputter out some pseudointellectual nonsense.

I figured.

I really feel ya. It’s insane how, short of donating as much as we can, most of us can’t really do anything but watch this shit happen. It’s a fucking mess.

Somehow, it’s more annoying to me when it’s someone’s beat up Honda Civic that they’ve deliberately modded to be louder than thunder. Like…really?

Oh wow has Lemmy gotten big enough that now people bring it up in every comeback post the way people do with Reddit? Awesome. That’s gonna so fun.

Call it whatever you want. The fact of the matter is that you complaining about Americans eating beef will change nothing, while enacting policies punishing the corporations producing the bulk the waste on Earth will. But hey, I’ll bite, I don’t eat meat, and I don’t drive a car, since I work from home. So what else should I do to make you happy? Not have a smartphone, because smartphone bad? I’ve had the same one since high school, but sure, I’ll stop using that too. Now, what? Absolutely jack shit. I’m not feeling “snugly superior”. What I’m feeling is tired of randos, probably in my own damn tax bracket, defending the corporations and billionaires literally producing everything being consumed. Good luck convincing those 333 million Americans you googled to stop eating meat and dairy, which they have been convinced is necessary to live due to misinformation campaigns. Good luck convincing them driving the cars that those companies have and continue to lobby infrastructure for. Good luck convincing each and every single individual to basically halt their entire life as it currently is, one by one. Those Americans who have a very rich history of listening to others. That will be much, MUCH easier than targeting the corporations, and DEFINITELY much more effective.

You came to try to shame me and apparently all of America for refusing to do the work, because you interpreted me saying “corporations and billionaires are a bigger problem” (because they are) as “we shouldn’t take any individual responsibility”. But I’m the one being snugly superior lmao. Dunno why, but this is always argument people with your viewpoint make. Nobody said we shouldn’t take individual responsibility. On the contrary, I think we should all stop driving cars, and cut back on the insanely bloated levels of consumption in this country, alone. But I can only do so much. I can’t do shit about what you or every other person in this country is doing. And when people call for changes, especially involving policies for the some of the biggest polluters on the planet in a country whose politicians frequently block any such change, sauntering into the room and going “oh wow but you have a phone lol” doesn’t amount to anything but bootlicking. Because you’re not advocating for anything; nobody is arguing against personal responsibility. But when will it be their responsibility? They didn’t ask for your help, and they certainly don’t need it. So if it ain’t bootlicking, it’s just fucking pointless.

That’s bullshit. Same argument corporations try to push on us about climate change. Fish rots from the head down. Obviously there will be sacrifices we have to make. But to preach “what will YOU be giving up, huh??” when megacorps and gazillionaires hoard literal mountains of wealth to the detriment of the planet and all others while they purposely stand in the way of any progress or change that might affect their bottom line? Bootlicking at worst, misguided liberal soapbox bullshit at best.

Oh god I didn’t even consider that lmao

Well Trump’s face is also ugly and I wouldn’t fuck him. Does that make you feel any better? This is like when people whined about others insulting Mitch McConnell because he looks like The Pale Man in a skin suit. I get what you’re saying: we should target the people they are, and not what they look like. But we do. We literally already do. Everyone does. Nobody cares about insulting scumsucking fascists. If they weren’t fascists, and people were still insulting them, then that’d be a thing. But here? Eh.

Can we do anything ?

What are socialists planning to do if we discover time travel??

Two things can be true, kumquat

Ding ding ding!!!

Yeah I’m not doing this lol

There should be a spot between “everybody can use and claim any idea as their own and make money off of it” and “corporations with virtually limitless resources control all IP and no matter how small or innocuous a use of that IP is, they are the arbiters of copyright, trademarks, etc”. How is this controversial?

It’s downright depressing. Like the article mentions, she is obviously the better candidate. Anything is better than the absolute deluge of hate and stupidity on the opposite side. However, we still get what amounts to “better than nothing, which is better than republicans”. While true, I just wish we had another way in this country other than to watch right-wing fascists and liberal status quo defenders have pissing contests while we (and any nation affected by the actions of ours) are stuck in the crossfire.

There should be a balance. The way things are now, and have been, is simply not balanced.

This sounds like a wonderful idea!