How much was paid with employee income tax? How much was paid with VAT?
How much did immigrants take out of the system?
This is the most biased one sided comparison.
It’s strange how in the when businesses employee people and that wage gets taxed that’s 100% on the employee. But when a business sells a product and it gets taxed that’s 100% on the customer.
Well a Billionaires Super-Yavht technically generates Jobs, is good for the economy and so on… still it’s a waste of resources (= environment dies a little for nothing).
If companies would actually “invest” in RnD as much as you imply, we would be at a vastly different technological state. Capitalism is like, infinite Solar energy? Nah, let’s distribute fake news and manipulate the voters (Started in the 70s after Carter). It’s just braindead at this point.
Yeah nah, I think we will never discuss on one level. It’s like easy to dismiss others arguments as stupid, because “Lemmy”, while cosplaying capitalist fanboy.
Undocumented immigrants can’t file income tax, because they are undocumented. However, they also can’t utilize the majority of our costly social services, because they, obviously, don’t have documentation. They can’t sign up for welfare programs, utilize police resources for fear of being deported, etc.
Overall though, they are also human. They produce similar economic demand to Americans. They pay sales tax. Their landlord pays tax on their rent. They are also often paid less than Americans because they have no ability to enforce the law through legal means (again, for fear of being deported), but still have to buy things like food, which is taxed.
Thus, they tend to, at a bare minimum, take roughly about what they put in, leaving a mostly neutral effect on the economy.
Of course, the best option we have is to grant them amnesty, because that then means they can file & pay income taxes, can more easily be statistically measured and analyzed as a group, and can engage in class solidarity through union organization, which raises working conditions and wages for all workers.
An easy example is not paying income tax. Some illegals work for cash because they’re undocumented and so pay no income tax. When that person uses public stuff like roads and local dog parks and anything that’s ultimately paid for with taxes, they’re taking benefits and not paying back into the system.
Whether or not we might want to deport someone or otherwise punish them for this “freeloading” is a separate question, but I don’t think there’s much of an argument to say that no amount of freeloading is happening at all.
Define “freeloading” for me. They don’t have access to big social services (TANF, SSI, etc) due to not having documentation, roads are funded through fuel taxes as far as I’m aware (so if they’re pumping gas, they’re paying for the roads), dog parks are usually paid out of local sales tax (again, only as far as I know, I live in GA and we’re a fucked up state a lot of times).
Income tax is a big one, but not on a small scale (like municipal level)… Hell, I haven’t ever had a local income tax that I can remember.
Hmmm yes, they can go for a walk in a park. But they can’t use TANF, Medicaid, SSI/SSDI, SNAP, or anything else that requires means testing. While they do get taxes withheld from their paycheck. So they are actually paying for that park.
Yes some are on a cash only, under the table arrangement. But 100 billion dollars worth of them are not. Banks don’t require proof of citizenship, and states that aren’t busy trying to shoot themselves in the foot aren’t checking citizenship for work. So they get taxes, the immigrants get worker protections, and life goes on as normal.
Illegals pay taxes bud. I’m sorry you didn’t know that. When they buy groceries they are taxed. Everything they buy is taxed. The only thing they are getting away with is federal and state taxes but there are plenty of Americans that don’t pay their taxes either.
Everything the tv is telling you about undocumented workers is a lie. Even the numbers. Some of your favorite brands are perpetuating the problem because they love to hire these “freeloaders” and pay them poverty wages and not tell anyone. Tyson is one of the biggest employers of illegal immigrants.
If the Republican Party gave a shit about fixing the issue they would stop allowing businesses to hire these people.
So much wrong with this post. First, the US does not have a VAT. Second, why would you ascribe an employees wages to the employer? Isn’t it the employees skills that earns them a wage? Third, what do you even mean with “undocumented “ migrants taking out of the system? They are undocumented and thus don’t have access to social security/medicaid etc.
We don’t have VAT in the US and we don’t track sales tax. This is from two sources. Immigrants that can use a tax ID number, and immigrants that cannot but still have taxes withheld from their paycheck. So the only effect is they can’t get a refund.
How much was paid with employee income tax? How much was paid with VAT?
How much did immigrants take out of the system?
This is the most biased one sided comparison.
It’s strange how in the when businesses employee people and that wage gets taxed that’s 100% on the employee. But when a business sells a product and it gets taxed that’s 100% on the customer.
Nah Bro, it’s biased against poor and pro rich. Taxes on income are nothing the company pays, it’s paid by the employees.
Taxes on profits and gains are circumvented by “declaring necessary investments” to set the net profit to 0.
I know there are cases where this is legit, but I doubt, Amazon and others just steal.
From an economic perspective it’s largely the same.
Research and development is important for long term growth that’s why governments do their best to financially encourage it.
But this is Lemmy. Might as well be talking to a spam sandwich when it comes to economics.
Well a Billionaires Super-Yavht technically generates Jobs, is good for the economy and so on… still it’s a waste of resources (= environment dies a little for nothing).
If companies would actually “invest” in RnD as much as you imply, we would be at a vastly different technological state. Capitalism is like, infinite Solar energy? Nah, let’s distribute fake news and manipulate the voters (Started in the 70s after Carter). It’s just braindead at this point.
Yeah nah, I think we will never discuss on one level. It’s like easy to dismiss others arguments as stupid, because “Lemmy”, while cosplaying capitalist fanboy.
Undocumented immigrants can’t file income tax, because they are undocumented. However, they also can’t utilize the majority of our costly social services, because they, obviously, don’t have documentation. They can’t sign up for welfare programs, utilize police resources for fear of being deported, etc.
Overall though, they are also human. They produce similar economic demand to Americans. They pay sales tax. Their landlord pays tax on their rent. They are also often paid less than Americans because they have no ability to enforce the law through legal means (again, for fear of being deported), but still have to buy things like food, which is taxed.
Thus, they tend to, at a bare minimum, take roughly about what they put in, leaving a mostly neutral effect on the economy.
Immigration is generally regarded to boost innovation overall, lead to higher education rates within the workforce, and creates higher overall economic productivity., which is an effect on the economy that isn’t just taxes in, taxes out.
Of course, the best option we have is to grant them amnesty, because that then means they can file & pay income taxes, can more easily be statistically measured and analyzed as a group, and can engage in class solidarity through union organization, which raises working conditions and wages for all workers.
Explain to me how an illegal immigrant is “taking” anything from the system.
An easy example is not paying income tax. Some illegals work for cash because they’re undocumented and so pay no income tax. When that person uses public stuff like roads and local dog parks and anything that’s ultimately paid for with taxes, they’re taking benefits and not paying back into the system.
Whether or not we might want to deport someone or otherwise punish them for this “freeloading” is a separate question, but I don’t think there’s much of an argument to say that no amount of freeloading is happening at all.
Define “freeloading” for me. They don’t have access to big social services (TANF, SSI, etc) due to not having documentation, roads are funded through fuel taxes as far as I’m aware (so if they’re pumping gas, they’re paying for the roads), dog parks are usually paid out of local sales tax (again, only as far as I know, I live in GA and we’re a fucked up state a lot of times).
Income tax is a big one, but not on a small scale (like municipal level)… Hell, I haven’t ever had a local income tax that I can remember.
Yeah I take your meaning that the severity of the freeloading is negligible in most cases.
I was just trying to demonstrate how an illegal immigrant could in principal be “taking” from the system for the person who asked.
Hmmm yes, they can go for a walk in a park. But they can’t use TANF, Medicaid, SSI/SSDI, SNAP, or anything else that requires means testing. While they do get taxes withheld from their paycheck. So they are actually paying for that park.
Yes some are on a cash only, under the table arrangement. But 100 billion dollars worth of them are not. Banks don’t require proof of citizenship, and states that aren’t busy trying to shoot themselves in the foot aren’t checking citizenship for work. So they get taxes, the immigrants get worker protections, and life goes on as normal.
Well that’s just the level of economic understanding on this website. Immigrants get everything for free but everyone else pays for society at large.
Illegals pay taxes bud. I’m sorry you didn’t know that. When they buy groceries they are taxed. Everything they buy is taxed. The only thing they are getting away with is federal and state taxes but there are plenty of Americans that don’t pay their taxes either.
Everything the tv is telling you about undocumented workers is a lie. Even the numbers. Some of your favorite brands are perpetuating the problem because they love to hire these “freeloaders” and pay them poverty wages and not tell anyone. Tyson is one of the biggest employers of illegal immigrants.
If the Republican Party gave a shit about fixing the issue they would stop allowing businesses to hire these people.
A lot of them are paying those, too.
So much wrong with this post. First, the US does not have a VAT. Second, why would you ascribe an employees wages to the employer? Isn’t it the employees skills that earns them a wage? Third, what do you even mean with “undocumented “ migrants taking out of the system? They are undocumented and thus don’t have access to social security/medicaid etc.
Imma go ahead and say the income tax & VAT combined don’t equal 97B.
Additionally, imma guess immigrants took out much less than the 97B they put into the system.
Fact check me.
That’s not how fact checking works.
Someone’s made a stupid text on image post incorrectly comparing things and didn’t even back that up.
Here’s the study. Robert Reich is a former Secretary of Labor known for pushing worker’s rights. He’s generally pretty credible.
Funny how that person responded to everyone except for you. You being the person who provided evidence that likely proves them completely wrong.
Mustn’t draw attention to the argument that beats mine.
I guess that’s how fact checking works for them.
We don’t have VAT in the US and we don’t track sales tax. This is from two sources. Immigrants that can use a tax ID number, and immigrants that cannot but still have taxes withheld from their paycheck. So the only effect is they can’t get a refund.
Holy shit you guys have sales tax? Really living in the 1800’s there.
Yup
Just say you care about money more than people. It’s quicker and easier to ignore you than when you sputter out some pseudointellectual nonsense.