• ZeroCool
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    25 days ago

    The “I’d rather live under a fascist dictatorship than vote for Biden” crowd are little better than the red-hatted morons cheering for that same fascist dictatorship.

    • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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      25 days ago

      …. Barely. At least the red-hatted morons can claim stupidity if they ever snap out of it.

      • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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        25 days ago

        Non-voting “leftists” will just find a way to moralize their shitty choice, just like they virtue signal about genocide and immediately promote tactics that are going to increase it.

        • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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          25 days ago

          Bingo. I’m not saying there aren’t some legitimate leftists, but considering that they’re not doing shit about those posing as them to spread propaganda- really doesn’t help their agenda at all.

          • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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            24 days ago

            Many of them go to the streets, protest on their campuses or in their workplaces. Many of them got physically attacked by police or police endorsed fascist groups on campuses.

            What did you do in the past 9 months? How many protests were you part of?

            • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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              24 days ago

              The fuck has this to do with anything? Do you approach everyone that says things you disagree with using this bullshit?

              This has nothing to do with protests. What I’m taking about are the leftists that do nothing about “the leftists” that pose as them to bandwagon the agenda for the purpose to get people to not vote against Trump.

              And trust me- I do PLENTY during the years between elections. And what I do is far more effecting than protesting every four years over FOTW manufactured outrage.

              • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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                24 days ago

                So what do you do? Because you claim that everyone who will not vote for Biden and is announcing that would be doing nothing. Which is not only a very crass assumption to make, also with how you relate it to Palestine and claiming people would be part of a manufactured outrage you are either showing that genocide is not an important issue to you or even worse you deny others people outrage over genocide to be sincere. Especially with how understandably people most outraged and worried are of racialized communities this adds racists overtones to your statement. Now maybe that was not your intention in which case it is a good chance for you to reflect on it.

                So what are you specifically doing aside from voting and insulting people on the internet?

                • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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                  24 days ago

                  ROFL! Dude. What I do and how much of it for how long- isn’t what this is about. And I’m fully aware of this tactic you’re using to turn the discussion around to put me on the defensive.

                  I’m not new to this.

                  News flash:

                  Not voting doesn’t cancel an election. Someone is still getting elected. And suggesting people not vote against Trump, is support for Trump. This is not up for debate. This is reality. With us or against us is a very real thing.

                  And the fact that most of the clowns that are not voting know damn well that things will be as bad is not FAR worse for Palestine if Trump is elected- and don’t care…. Says EVERYTHING we need to know about your agenda.

                  It’s been argued time-and-again how you people can’t offer a better candidate to win in November- but still fold your arms know how badly we will ALL be fucked if Trump gets the White House.

                  Even people for other countries have been pleading with you to do the right thing.

                  How fucking stupid can things get?

                  • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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                    24 days ago

                    Again you are attacking people proclaiming they would be doing nothing, when you know absolutely nothing about them, simply because they voice a different opinion to yours. But given how you avoided the question you create the impression that you in fact are doing nothing except from insulting people online.

                    Also your blissfull ignorance to the racial component of your allegations make me believe that you are a white upper class american who wants minorities to play by your ball as a Trump win would mildly inconvenience you. Meanwhile people who actually face threats from a Trump presidency also speak out against Biden because they understand that the US political system is there to genocide all non white people.

                    But the white liberal being a racist in disguise is something we now since the civil right movements.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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          25 days ago

          virtue signal about genocide

          “Virtue signaling” is what rightwingers say about those to their left. I see it’s been adopted by liberals to say about the anti-genocide left.

          • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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            25 days ago

            virtue-signalling. : the act or practice of conspicuously displaying one’s awareness of and attentiveness to political issues, matters of social and racial justice, etc., especially instead of taking effective action.

            If you’re going to complain about genocide then do something that will objectively make the one thing you’re complaining about much worse, you’re only signalling the virtues you profess to care about and not doing anything to stop it.

            If you’re so upset about being called a virtue signaler, maybe don’t virtue signal about your vote when your vote isn’t any kind of harm reduction and would actively make the problem worse?

            But hey, what do I know, I just actually want to minimize genocide instead of taking my ball and going home to let a monster into the white house and make it worse. But please, keep telling me how much your type is “anti-genocide” when you’re asking people to do the same thing trump and his ilk want. Kindly fuck off with that bullshit friend.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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              25 days ago

              But hey, what do I know

              Only what you assume. I’m voting for Biden.

              But please, keep telling me how much your type is “anti-genocide” when you’re asking people to do the same thing trump and his ilk want.

              I’m not asking anyone to vote for Trump, to not vote, or to vote third party. In this very thread I’ve said to vote for Biden. Not that you care.

              • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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                24 days ago

                Only what you assume. I’m voting for Biden.

                I’m glad to hear that. I apologize for lumping you in with those pushing the ‘dont vote blue’ bullshit while professing* their opposition to genocide. As I said above, that’s the virtue signalling I’m talking about, and that’s exactly what that behavior is.

                I’m not asking anyone to vote for Trump, to not vote, or to vote third party. In this very thread I’ve said to vote for Biden. Not that you care.

                I’m not going to spend 30 minutes to an hour on every person replies to me with what appears to be virtue signaling to not vote left to see if they’re actually voting Biden. Again, I apologize for lumping you in with the rest of those. But given the quantity of that behavior it is not out of line to assume.

                The only reason I ask people to vote for Biden is because I care about genocide. I want to stop the genocide as much as I can, and prevent a genocide from coming here to our shores. I have family and friends who are LGBT+, and I am afraid for their safety and lives if Trump were to be elected.

                And for anybody who pretends that they care about that, while pushing behaviors that actively sabotage their stated goals, I am absolutely going to call out as virtue signalling because that’s what it is. I want to see people actually take actions that align with what they say they believe, not just talk about it while sabotaging their goals through messaging pushed by their opposition as well.

            • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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              24 days ago

              You know what would minimize genocide? If US politicians would have to face repercussions for helping in it. You do the opposite you grant the blanket check to the Biden administration and ensure them that no matter how much they support genocide, you will vote for them.

              You are enabling it and you probably know it subconsciously, which is why you try to spin it the other way around because you don’t want to face the reality of your actions.

              The only thing the Dems care about is power, just like the Reps. If you would threaten them to loose their power, they would be forced to act on this matter. Instead you reassure them that they have nothing to fear from you. And the most absurd thing is, this will not only fuck the people in Palestine more, it will also fuck you, as nothing you want politically will matter. You are telling the Dems that they dont need to fight for your vote. You are telling them to ignore your needs, your positions, your values.

          • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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            25 days ago

            Are you planning on voting for the candidate who is going to be the lesser evil and minimize the harm, or are you going throw it away on a protest vote/not vote at all?

            Because if you’re doing the latter, you’re not opposing genocide, you’re abdicating your opposition by not opposing the person who wants to finish the job. Not voting against trump on the general election while professing* to oppose genocide is virtue signalling because you’re explicitly and intentionally not doing the one thing that will have the most effect on the genocide.

            • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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              25 days ago

              I’m voting for Biden, but I’m not gonna justify a genocide to shame others to do the same. There are many reasons to give to vote for Biden, (rejoining the climate agreement, abortion rights), but apologizing for a genocide isn’t one of them.

              • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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                25 days ago

                And asking people to vote for Biden when they profess to care about genocide is not justifying genocide. Especially when they say they won’t vote or are voting 3rd party as a protest vote or something to teach them a lesson.

                I’m sorry you’re upset about me labelling that behavior as virtue signalling, but that’s what it is. You may not want to shame others for behaviors that harm the goal, but I absolutely will.

                • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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                  24 days ago

                  The “vote blue no matter who” crowd is actually hurting Biden, not helping. By dismissing the complaints of constituents, it places their interests in the background. It can be argued, that with the genocide occurring, it actually pushes people to not vote, or vote third party.

                  A campaign run on holding voters hostage doesn’t work, because it isn’t really a campaign at all; it is a campaign against your opponent rather than for your candidate.

                  The Democratic Party turning their backs on a huge portion of their voting populace isn’t some sort of sacrifice necessary to win the election, it is the shovel the Democratic Party is using to dig its own grave — if not this year, then in the years to come. Ignoring and stifling the voices of the people you’ve hurt, plugging your ears when they ask for accountability and telling them to take what they are given is a surefire way to cement their contempt for you, not to get them to vote for you. Strong-arming them into voting for you doesn’t work because minorities have already lost the election, and they know it. They lost the moment an establishment Democrat took the primaries again. They lose no matter what color the White House turns in January. source

                  • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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                    24 days ago

                    When your source is an op-ed piece, you don’t have a source. You have an opinion that isn’t even originally yours to begin with.

        • Crikeste@lemm.ee
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          24 days ago

          No matter who is elected, the genocide of Palestinians will continue. And since that’s the case, why doesn’t America deserve to suffer?

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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            24 days ago

            why doesn’t America deserve to suffer?

            Voting as Fire Extinguisher

            by Kyle Tran Myhre

            When the haunted house catches fire: a moment of indecision.

            The house was, after all, built on bones, and blood, and bad intentions.

            Everyone who enters the house feels that overwhelming dread, the evil that perhaps only fire can purge.

            It’s tempting to just let it burn.

            And then I remember: there are children inside.

          • btaf45@lemmy.world
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            24 days ago

            The nearby countries of Egypt, Turkey, Lebanon etc could all do way more than Biden. They don’t accept refugees. They don’t send food. They don’t offer peacekeepers etc. But instead of blaming the countries in the area you’re blaming a country on the other side of the world. We aren’t responsible for everything that happens everywhere in the world.

            And since that’s the case, why doesn’t America deserve to suffer?

            Do you not get how much worse a right wing government in America would be for Palestine? The previous terrible choice of Sex Offender Trump voters, George Bush is responsible for Hamas taking over Gaza.

            The responsibility for Gaza is as follows.

            1. Hamas

            2. Israel’s terrible prime minister

            3. Egypt doing nothing

            4. Turkey doing nothing

            5. Lebanon, Jordan, and all the other nearby countries doing nothing.

            6. George W Bush ® letting Hamas take over Gaza

            7. Gazans over 30 for voting for Hamas

            8. Britain and France for their colonialist setup of the region.

            • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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              24 days ago

              They dont send food because Israel blocks it. In fact the aid to Gaza on land is mainly coming through Jordan and then gets pillaged by Isareli terrorists supported by the government. When Egypt wanted to send humanitarian aid in November through Rafah crossing, Israel bombed it repeatedly.

              Meanwhile the US is literally supplying the very weapons that are murdering the people in Gaza. And even when the US claims to provide humanitarian aid, like with that Pier they built it ends up in reality being used to facilitate massacres like in Nusereit, using aid trucks as disguise for Israeli genocide forces.

              I don’t know what you are smoking, but it most be strong if you believe Israel could act without the massive support and endorsement by the US government. Israel is primarily to blame as they are directly committing the genocide and then comes the US as the are delivering the weapons and providing diplomatic cover, even threatening international courts that want Israeli war criminals to face justice.

              • btaf45@lemmy.world
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                24 days ago

                They dont send food because Israel blocks it.

                Egypt had their own gate into Gaza until very recently. And Gaza has a giant coastline. That’s why Biden built a port in Gaza. So he could send in food aid.

                Israel bombed it repeatedly.

                Nope. Israel cannot bomb Egypt without starting a major war.

                like with that Pier

                Biden’s humanitarian aid pier can be used by any country. How come Turkey isn’t using it to send aid? Lebanon? Anybody in Arab land?

                using aid trucks as disguise for Israeli genocide forces.

                So you want all food aid to Gaza stopped, because of Hamas Crime Syndicate propaganda? Sounds like you yourself are supporting genocide whether you know it or not.

                Israel could act without the massive support and endorsement by the US government

                Dude Israel literally defied a UN Security Council resolution from Biden to stop the war. What the heck are you smoking?

                • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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                  24 days ago

                  Nope. Israel cannot bomb Egypt without starting a major war.

                  Israel bombed the Gazan side of the crossing, destroying the roads and making it unpassable for trucks. Also Israel killed two Egyptian soldiers when taking over the crossing.

                  Dude Israel literally defied a UN Security Council resolution from Biden to stop the war. What the heck are you smoking?

                  As the US continued to send billions in bombs to Israel and will soon host Netanyahu despite the ICC seeking him as war criminal. You know that the UN resolutions only work if the powerful countries enforce them? Guess who would have to enforce it by just not sending weapons. But he still does. Judge actions, not words.

                  • btaf45@lemmy.world
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                    23 days ago

                    Israel bombed the Gazan side of the crossing, destroying the roads and making it unpassable for trucks.

                    Then Egypt could have sent soldiers in. In fact, I bet Israel would have been totally fine if Egypt simply took over the entire Gaza area. The entire war could end tomorrow if Egypt simply agreed to do that.

                    Guess who would have to enforce it by just not sending weapons.

                    Nobody. Previous aid has nothing at all to do with implementing the UN ceasefire resolution. Biden already stopped sending any types of weapons that could be used in Gaza because Israel has a terrible PM. Israel can buy any weapons it wants on the international market. The idea that the US could magically stop the war is nonsense, as is the idea that Biden has done nothing, as is the idea that the countries in the region do not have the chief power and responsibility to do what they could.

          • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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            24 days ago

            Because we should be working to minimize suffering wherever we can. No one deserves to suffer these fates, and I don’t want them to expand. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of something better.

            Why shouldn’t we fight genocide however we can to prevent more suffering? Giving up and letting them genocide even more just tells me that genocide isn’t an important topic in one’s mind, no matter what their words say.