• nifty@lemmy.world
    202·
    2 days ago

    Lack of sleep can lead to psychosis and other mental issues. Preventing people from sleeping in some manner is just inviting unintentional consequences. More muggings, stabbings, rapes, looting or something else?

    People being homeless is a failure of society, not an individual.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
      82·
      2 days ago

      Preventing people from sleeping in some manner is just inviting unintentional consequences.

      I don’t think the consequences are unintentional. Torturing a homeless person by continuously harassing them for trying to get sleep, then recording them lashing out at a city worker or police officer after they’ve snapped, produces a set of video content that can be spread across the internet and used as kindling to turn the housed public against the homeless.

      In the same way Project Veritas existed to harass and extort voting rights activists and health care centers, these laws and the associated anti-homeless activist base are going to be used to justify mass round-ups, imprisonments, and police executions of homeless people.

      This is real actual fascism in practice.

      People being homeless is a failure of society, not an individual.

      “If You Born Poor,It is not your mistake, but if you die poor,it is your mistake”

      ― Bill Gates Sr., Showing Up for Life: Thoughts on the Gifts of a Lifetime

      Should be noted that Gates Jr was born into a family of millionaires, with a mother who sat on the First Interstate Bank of Washington’s Board of Directors and a father who was a founding member of the law firm PGE. If you want to talk about individuals who might be responsible for homelessness, these two are a good place to start. They’ve been “philanthropists” for most of their adult lives and commanded billions of dollars in charitable donations. But the their tenure in these non-profits and committees have yielded rising poverty, declining standards of living, and enormous new personal debts.

      The folks who have horded the lion’s share of the national wealth firmly believe that they aren’t responsible for the consequential inequity and bankruptcy that their greed has produced.

      • nifty@lemmy.world
        2·
        1 day ago

        I think the lack of empathy and compassion for homeless people comes from the puritanical roots of America where failure in some aspect of life was related to moral or character failure.

        So again, it’s important to point out that the fact some people fall through the cracks means there are deficiencies in the social fabric which disallow optimal self determination for all individuals in that society. No one dreams of growing up to be a homeless person as a child.

        America is the one country in the world which has the resources to pull off market socialism correctly. But many progressive ideals are off the table because of rich or billionaire class.

        We should stop hating each other and just hate on the rich for robbing us of a healthy and well functioning society

  • some_designer_dude@lemmy.worldEnglish
    13·
    2 days ago

    “When tyranny becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” — Thomas Jefferson

    When the government oversteps its authority and becomes tyrannical, then the governed have a responsibility to overthrow that government to reestablish the rights of the people to be free and only be governed by consent.

  • SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
    491·
    3 days ago

    Can you solve the equation?

    Homelessness becomes illegal + For-profit prison system that’s allowed by law to force prisoners to work + increasing cost of rent + lower relative price of labor =

    spoiler

    Situation of dog eats dog, increasingly pauperized labor market where the poorest layer of the population gets enslaved, and the second poorest, and the third poorest, and the n-th poorest all will also fall one by one, because guess what? Free workers now have to compete in wages with prisoners.

    • blindbunny@lemmy.mlEnglish
      11·
      2 days ago

      They’re gonna learn the hard way there’s no such thing as free work when the workers slaves burn their factorys down.

      • GrundlButter@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        5·
        2 days ago

        That’s a refreshing thought, and I hope you’re right.

        If your labor is forced because you’re incarcerated, you’re absolutely justified in damaging your slavers any way you can. I’m not talking about work programs, unless they are “work programs” that you can be punished for not taking.

  • callyral [he/they]@pawb.socialEnglish
    3·
    2 days ago

    where the fuck are they gonna sleep then? at home?

    that’s right american homeless people, the US supreme court has solved homelessness: “don’t sleep outside, just buy a house!” /s

    • s_s@lemm.eeEnglish
      3·
      1 day ago

      Why even worry about it when you can just bus them to California?

  • NorDorf@lemmy.world
    7·
    2 days ago

    What if you aren’t homeless but still sleep outside as if you were homeless? Is that allowed? Imagining someone registering an address where homeless can state that they live (but without actually living there), to circumvent the law…

  • muntedcrocodile@lemm.eeEnglish
    292·
    2 days ago

    So whats the punishment a fine? Prison time where u use tax payer money to give them a bed and food?

    • halyk.the.red@lemmy.ml
      411·
      2 days ago

      The purpose is to push people into the for-profit prison system, which rakes in billions in slave labor.

        • halyk.the.red@lemmy.ml
          24·
          2 days ago

          Nope, personal opinion. It makes sense to me that for-profit prison systems would lobby to make homelessness a crime, to gather more workers, and to get more money from the government. I don’t have a source that says “Yes, this is the reason why.” but you can follow the money and make your own opinions from there.

            • halyk.the.red@lemmy.ml
              4·
              2 days ago

              Of course, I don’t see why you’re getting downvoted so hard. I think that asking people to back things up with sources should be standard practice.

              In this case, I don’t have concrete proof, but I let you know that it’s an opinion influenced by certain facts, like private prisons generating profits and them using lobbists to further their interests.

              Some people, however, make wild claims or assumptions that they’re pushing as pure facts, but can’t produce any kind of verifiable source.

              Some people are saying they don’t want to do your homework for you, and just to google it. To be fair, that’s all I did to get those links. But their thinking is backwards. The one who makes the claim has the burden of proof, not everyone else.

              If someone makes a claim, but can’t support it at all, it can be disregarded. But if someone makes a claim, and provides proof, and someone else is able to provide proof contrary to that point, now we have a debate. More proof and evidence will be required to see who is correct.

              Otherwise we end up with people just firing off unverified claims, backed up with ad hominem and defended with strawmen and slippery slopes.

              So keep asking people for proof and sources, more people need to be checked on their shit.

        • Apytele@sh.itjust.works
          159·
          2 days ago

          a) go get your own sources I just met you I’m not taking homework assignments from you

          b) the primary argument is philosophical anyway; it should be illegal for a wider society to profit off of incarcerated people. They can be made to care for their own space, grow their own food, sew their own clothes, whatever, but the moment you allow them to make license plates for the rest of us, grow food for the rest of us, or clean up after the rest of us, that’s slavery, it’s wrong, and it doesn’t belong in a free country.

          And no, I have no further interest in continuing to argue with someone who the most they can coherently manage to contribute is “source plz” especially when there has been a huge body of media made already on the United States Prison-Industrial complex to the point that Netflix made it into a fucking soap opera. Go look it up on duckduckgo it would’ve taken you less time and effort than making this comment.

          • glitchdx@lemmy.world
            93·
            2 days ago

            You’re getting downvoted, but you’re absolutely right. The only valid argument against your comment is that you’re being a bit of an ass, but even that doesn’t make you wrong. If a person can’t handle a tiny bit of assholery, then they shouldn’t be on the internet.

            • Apytele@sh.itjust.works
              112·
              2 days ago

              I’ve no patience for sealioning. Also the incarcerated have been one of my all-time favorite patient populations to work with. Don’t get me wrong there’s plenty of pedos and other unsavory types, but there’s also a lot of just relatively normal decent people who just got steamrolled by the society we live in, and a lot of it does come down to housing like in the OP article. Their creativity also continually inspires me (even when they’re mostly getting up to no good, but if you can’t at least step back and appreciate the ingenuity of some of this shit you’d never cope otherwise). I had to stop working with that population even though I love them so much because I couldn’t stand watching them get abused. That broke me.

              • spikespaz@programming.dev
                4·
                2 days ago

                I’m asking for a source that prisons rake on billions, you assholes. I did not know that, and thought that prisons were a net loss.

              • glitchdx@lemmy.world
                6·
                2 days ago

                I didn’t know what sealioning is, so I looked it up on urban dictionary.

                https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sealioning

                A subtle form of trolling involving “bad-faith” questions. You disingenuously frame your conversation as a sincere request to be enlightened, placing the burden of educating you entirely on the other party. If your bait is successful, the other party may engage, painstakingly laying out their logic and evidence in the false hope of helping someone learn. In fact you are attempting to harass or waste the time of the other party, and have no intention of truly entertaining their point of view. Instead, you react to each piece of information by misinterpreting it or requesting further clarification, ad nauseum. The name “sea-lioning” comes from a Wondermark comic strip.

                I think the term is silly and there should be a better one for this concept, but lacking a better one I guess this will do. I’m sharing my learning so that others may learn from my experience.

                also, now I fucking hate sealions, and I’m not happy about it. They used to be fucking cute.

    • Sheldybear@lemmy.world
      13·
      2 days ago

      In the city where I grew up in Canada, it was illegal to sleep on the streets. The punishment was a single night in a holding cell with no record.

      This way, on cold nights, police would forcibly give people a warm meal and a place to sleep - there was a real danger of those folks freezing. The system worked most of the time, but if course, it really inconvenienced the purple who just want to be left alone.

        • Sheldybear@lemmy.world
          1·
          14 hours ago

          There were shelters throughout the city, but many chose not to go or marry have been in the wrong part of town. This way, police could forcibly take you away from the dangerous cold even against your wishes.

          It was a problem with a particular homeless family that lived under a bridge, they fought to stay in their camp and it created a big discussion surrounding the issue

  • Makeshift@sh.itjust.works
    341·
    3 days ago

    What the actual fuck.

    No it doesn’t work like that.

    Sleeping outside while homeless I am sure isn’t a deliberate choice. Homeless people aren’t magic. They can’t conjure a building to sleep in from thin air. Making it illegal doesn’t give tgem magic building making powers or like teleportation or whatever these delusional idiots think it does.

  • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    13·
    2 days ago

    Cities banning homeless people from sleeping outside while failing to give them any alternative is bad, but I think the constitutional prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment is a poor protection against that. This is the sort of thing we need actual laws passed to deal with.

    • notanaltaccount@lemmy.world
      8·
      2 days ago

      But it is actually cruel to create a system that deprives people of sleep, which is something they need, and sleep deprivation has been used as a form of torture.