The Achilles thing made me chuckle. And then it made me weep a bit because general education seems to be dead. I learnt about the Trojan war and attached mythology at school, doesn’t that happen anymore or is it an attention issue?
Maybe it’s just anything Greek. I remember reading a comment chain right here on Lemmy like 6 months ago, something about a thing/machine/software named Prometheus. One commenter wondered why they’d name themselves after an Alien movie.
I don’t think I ever covered any Greek myths in school in the UK. Like many others I did have an interest in them so I did read the Iliad and Odyssey in my school years (though I don’t remember which translations). We did cover a few Norse myths; the bit of the Prose Edda with the giant Skrymir was one that stuck with me for some reason
At the end of the day there is simply far too much history to give everyone an overview of all of the big things. There are interesting aspects of the relationship between myth, history, historiography, and archaeology that I expect Troy could be a great subject for, but I don’t think there’s anything so unique about it that it has to be a topic
Here in the U.S., we cover the Greek stuff A LOT. Like it is hammered into your head. The reason for this is, of course, the U.S. sees itself as the heir to Athenian Democracy and Roman Republicanism, so we have to really emphasize that in our conditionin… Uhhh education.
No, the reason is that the storytelling methods which we still use to this day originated in Greek drama and comedy. It’s foundational for a complete understanding of literature, theater, poetry, and indeed most all art forms. Any education without at least a significant time spent on the classics is utterly worthless.
That’s not an “America Bad” thing, it’s just fact? That’s the explicit reason for the entire framing of western history in American classrooms. We start with Egypt, then the hand the torch over to the Greeks, then they hand the torch to the Romans, then the Dark Ages (spoooooky), then the Renaissance, the British Empire, and then the USA. It’s one of our foundations for American Exceptionalism
I see where you’re misunderstanding here. It’s not the studying, it’s the specific western-centric framing that I’m talking about. Unless you spent a lot of time talking about the Ottomans? Or Aboriginal Dreamtime?
I don’t think your history experiences sound very typical. I didn’t have anything about the Egyptians outside of pyramids in elementary school, very little Greek mythology, and then nothing about the Romans (beyond a bit about how they had good tech like aqueducts), dark ages (maybe a little about the plague and feudalism), or Renaissance. Did you go to a school with extra history requirements or something?
Noooo, I went to, like, 6 different elementary schools to two different states, all in pretty low income areas. This was pretty consistent. But this went well beyond elementary school. When you took world history in high school, what did that look like? This was pretty consistent. And it wasn’t just history, this was all blended into English classes and stuff too
I read a lot of Greek mythology on my own and through elective classes but I think the only core course material I had on it was pretty brief. Shakespeare was pretty much every year starting in middle school but not much Greek.
Ya, like most things in the us, it’s not ubiquitous. But my experience was similar to yours. We covered it, but it wasn’t beaten into us like it was on some “we’re the heir to the Athenian dynasty” tip.
Here in german speaking central europe i learnt (i wont stop using it just to piss @atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works off lol) about the wars among the greek citystates, with references to Homer, and later on when learning Latin (which i sucked at, but that’s not so important right now) we read excerpts and learnt (hahaha roflcopter) about the mythology a lot more. There also were references to the Greek mythology in our literature classes.
Dude i’m just chuckling when i see you pop up. We could make a running gag out of it if you are up to it - i keep using “learnt” and you keep shitting on me for using something you are not used to lol
I would even offer that everytime i use it, i send you a PM so you can comment on my incorrect usage ;-)
Alas, poor atomicbocks, they learnt that people spelt some words differently in other parts of the world. Whilst they knew what was meant, 'twixt comment and reply all their indignation swept them up. They dreamt of a world in which they telt all speakers of the tongue how they ought to have exprest it
And all but two of these examples can still be heard regularly where I am!
Aw come on, stop ribbing him ;-) I looked up what he comments normally, and he seems like a stand up guy, and i have no hard feelings at all, as long as i made my point that education does not protect against assimilating different pidgins and integrating them into your common vocabulary.
That is something that wouldn’t be possible on Reddit, which is why i left (aside from the APIcalypse). I believe we all here can much more easily find common ground simply by staying human.
I don’t remember learning about the Greek myths in Canada’s (Ontario) public school either. I heard about them for the first time when I studied it in a university history class. We did ancient Greece, Rome, and Egypt as a young kid but I don’t believe the myths were mentioned.
Interestingly, my education regarding norse mythology was sorely lacking after school. We touched a few subjects, but without personal initiative i wouldn’t know shit about it outside of Odin, Loki, Thor and the Midgard Snake.
Learnt and learned are both used as the past participle and past tense of the verb to learn. Learned is the generally accepted way of spelling it in the United States and Canada, while the rest of the English-speaking world seems to prefer learnt for now.
Why for now? The American English tendency toward making irregular verbs into regular ones has started influencing British English, which is why the -edvariant is being used increasingly around the world. Soon, learned might be the most common form everywhere.
no, that was unintentional. But if you really like my mistakes as a non-native speaker you can print them out, stick them to the bedroom wall and masturbate to them to fuel your superiority; i aim to please.
Edit: I looked it up, it’s correct. You can still use it as a masturbatory template if you wish so.
“Less common” is not the same as “wrong”, and it’s doubly not the same as “wrong” when it actually just means “normal in other dialects of the language”
It’s considered informal, and in some dialects (mine included) unusual. The Grammarly link you edited into your first comment doesn’t even support a classification of “learnt” as informal, it literally just describes it as a dialect difference. You’re doing the same thing as telling a Brit that they’re spelling the word incorrectly if they write “colour”
“More commonly used” doesn’t mean that the other is incorrect, as your comment implies. Also, it’s only more common in the US, and we can’t tell where the person is from by his initial comment.
I’m from the EU and originally learnt (haha) UK English, but since i’m a net citizen, some americanisms have found their way into my vocabulary - understandable when taking US exceptionalism into account.
As a former ESL professor, I both learnt and taught: learnt, dreamt, was, became, began, taught, blew, meant, brought, thought, caught, drew, felt, fought, lit, grew etc. as part of the (very long) list of irregular English verbs in the past and participle forms.
I’m assuming your insistence is born (not borned) out of embarrassment over your initial mistake. It’s ok to not know something, admitting a mistake is a far better look.
The Achilles thing made me chuckle. And then it made me weep a bit because general education seems to be dead. I learnt about the Trojan war and attached mythology at school, doesn’t that happen anymore or is it an attention issue?
Maybe it’s just anything Greek. I remember reading a comment chain right here on Lemmy like 6 months ago, something about a thing/machine/software named Prometheus. One commenter wondered why they’d name themselves after an Alien movie.
Ouch. Prometheus himself would probably have turned around and returned the fire where it came from if he knew about that.
“I still get punished for helping those idiots thousands of years ago? Boy, that was so not worth it.”
Right!? The Alien from ‘Kablam!’ who taught Bob deserves better than that.
Yeah, after suffering so much.
Deep cut lol
Thanks for reminding me about Kablam!
That’s not how forethought works!!
I don’t think I ever covered any Greek myths in school in the UK. Like many others I did have an interest in them so I did read the Iliad and Odyssey in my school years (though I don’t remember which translations). We did cover a few Norse myths; the bit of the Prose Edda with the giant Skrymir was one that stuck with me for some reason
At the end of the day there is simply far too much history to give everyone an overview of all of the big things. There are interesting aspects of the relationship between myth, history, historiography, and archaeology that I expect Troy could be a great subject for, but I don’t think there’s anything so unique about it that it has to be a topic
Here in the U.S., we cover the Greek stuff A LOT. Like it is hammered into your head. The reason for this is, of course, the U.S. sees itself as the heir to Athenian Democracy and Roman Republicanism, so we have to really emphasize that in our conditionin… Uhhh education.
No, the reason is that the storytelling methods which we still use to this day originated in Greek drama and comedy. It’s foundational for a complete understanding of literature, theater, poetry, and indeed most all art forms. Any education without at least a significant time spent on the classics is utterly worthless.
Thank you for the sane take.
Studying Greek classics being used as an “America bad” is the biggest stretch, jfc. Not everything is a conspiracy. Take it down a notch.
That’s not an “America Bad” thing, it’s just fact? That’s the explicit reason for the entire framing of western history in American classrooms. We start with Egypt, then the hand the torch over to the Greeks, then they hand the torch to the Romans, then the Dark Ages (spoooooky), then the Renaissance, the British Empire, and then the USA. It’s one of our foundations for American Exceptionalism
Sudying Greek history and mythology merely for the sake of propaganda and as a through line to exceptionalism is not a fact, no.
I see where you’re misunderstanding here. It’s not the studying, it’s the specific western-centric framing that I’m talking about. Unless you spent a lot of time talking about the Ottomans? Or Aboriginal Dreamtime?
I don’t think your history experiences sound very typical. I didn’t have anything about the Egyptians outside of pyramids in elementary school, very little Greek mythology, and then nothing about the Romans (beyond a bit about how they had good tech like aqueducts), dark ages (maybe a little about the plague and feudalism), or Renaissance. Did you go to a school with extra history requirements or something?
Noooo, I went to, like, 6 different elementary schools to two different states, all in pretty low income areas. This was pretty consistent. But this went well beyond elementary school. When you took world history in high school, what did that look like? This was pretty consistent. And it wasn’t just history, this was all blended into English classes and stuff too
I read a lot of Greek mythology on my own and through elective classes but I think the only core course material I had on it was pretty brief. Shakespeare was pretty much every year starting in middle school but not much Greek.
Ya, like most things in the us, it’s not ubiquitous. But my experience was similar to yours. We covered it, but it wasn’t beaten into us like it was on some “we’re the heir to the Athenian dynasty” tip.
Here in german speaking central europe i learnt (i wont stop using it just to piss @atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works off lol) about the wars among the greek citystates, with references to Homer, and later on when learning Latin (which i sucked at, but that’s not so important right now) we read excerpts and learnt (hahaha roflcopter) about the mythology a lot more. There also were references to the Greek mythology in our literature classes.
Thanks for letting me live rent free in your head!
Dude i’m just chuckling when i see you pop up. We could make a running gag out of it if you are up to it - i keep using “learnt” and you keep shitting on me for using something you are not used to lol
I would even offer that everytime i use it, i send you a PM so you can comment on my incorrect usage ;-)
And all but two of these examples can still be heard regularly where I am!
Aw come on, stop ribbing him ;-) I looked up what he comments normally, and he seems like a stand up guy, and i have no hard feelings at all, as long as i made my point that education does not protect against assimilating different pidgins and integrating them into your common vocabulary.
Ahahaha, fair point, I respect that civility
That is something that wouldn’t be possible on Reddit, which is why i left (aside from the APIcalypse). I believe we all here can much more easily find common ground simply by staying human.
What’s interesting is I use both “dreamt” and “dreamed”, depending on the circumstance. I’m not completely sure when I use one over the other.
I don’t remember learning about the Greek myths in Canada’s (Ontario) public school either. I heard about them for the first time when I studied it in a university history class. We did ancient Greece, Rome, and Egypt as a young kid but I don’t believe the myths were mentioned.
It’s fine, you’re allowed to learn things outside of school. Something many people apparently have completely forgotten.
Greeks, Romans, Vikings, Victorians and WWI are all part of the UK national primary curriculum and have been for at least 30 years.
Yes, but there’s a lot to cover about them without touching any of the myths
Interestingly, my education regarding norse mythology was sorely lacking after school. We touched a few subjects, but without personal initiative i wouldn’t know shit about it outside of Odin, Loki, Thor and the Midgard Snake.
Oh great, those nords are now copying Skyrim and changing letters around to try and hide it!
I took a whole Greek Lit class in high school… but that was like 20+ years ago.
fuck I’m getting old
at least you are not growing old alone, i going with ya all the way ;-)
We did too but that was a few decades ago.
Is this intentional irony?
Edit for the down voters:
Source
We were taught that it was only okay to use T in some words that end in D, for instance build -> built.
“Learnt” is how the British spell the past tense of “learn.” It’s perfectly valid.
no, that was unintentional. But if you really like my mistakes as a non-native speaker you can print them out, stick them to the bedroom wall and masturbate to them to fuel your superiority; i aim to please.
Edit: I looked it up, it’s correct. You can still use it as a masturbatory template if you wish so.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/learnt -> past tense and past participle of learn in american english.
From your own link…
But I guess reading would get in the way of being a pervert.
“Less common” is not the same as “wrong”, and it’s doubly not the same as “wrong” when it actually just means “normal in other dialects of the language”
Ain’t is in the dictionary, it’s still considered incorrect.
It’s considered informal, and in some dialects (mine included) unusual. The Grammarly link you edited into your first comment doesn’t even support a classification of “learnt” as informal, it literally just describes it as a dialect difference. You’re doing the same thing as telling a Brit that they’re spelling the word incorrectly if they write “colour”
I think you are confusing informal and irregular in this case.
I’m not, but “irregular” does not mean “wrong” either. Heaps of English words have irregular forms. “Built” is one of them.
Pretty sure that ain’t right.
“More commonly used” doesn’t mean that the other is incorrect, as your comment implies. Also, it’s only more common in the US, and we can’t tell where the person is from by his initial comment.
I’m from the EU and originally learnt (haha) UK English, but since i’m a net citizen, some americanisms have found their way into my vocabulary - understandable when taking US exceptionalism into account.
Prescriptivist assholes being wrong is like the sweetest nectar
As a former ESL professor, I both learnt and taught: learnt, dreamt, was, became, began, taught, blew, meant, brought, thought, caught, drew, felt, fought, lit, grew etc. as part of the (very long) list of irregular English verbs in the past and participle forms.
I’m assuming your insistence is born (not borned) out of embarrassment over your initial mistake. It’s ok to not know something, admitting a mistake is a far better look.
What part of me posting the correct answer is insisting? I really don’t understand why everyone needs this to be a gotcha so please fuck off.
Sure bruv
Pretty sure you mean bröther, bruv.
So your edit is just “I’m wrong but going to pretend I’m not”, neat
That’s not what I said.
Sure thing, keep telling yourself