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AI is going to destroy art the same way Photoshop, or photography, or pre-made tubes of paints, destroyed art. It’s a tool, it helps people take the idea in their head and put it in the world. And it lowers the barrier to entry, now you don’t need years of practice in drawing technique to bring your ideas to life, you just need ideas.
If AI gets to a point that it can give us creative, original, art that sparks emotion in novel ways…well we probably also made a super intelligent AI and our list of problems is much different than today.
As someone who’s absolutely terrible at drawing, but enjoys photography and generally creativity, having AI tools to generate my own art is opening up a whole different avenue for me to scratch my creative itch.
I’ve got a technical background, so figuring out the tools and modifying them for my purposes has been a lot more fun than practice drawing.This is the perfect use case.
Photoshop didn’t destroy jobs forever, all it did was shift how people worked AND actually created work and different types of work.
As someone who’s absolutely terrible at drawing
Then practice. Nearly no artist was born knowing how to draw or paint, we dedicated countless hours to learn what works and what doesn’t.
I’ve only dabbled a bit with ML art, and I am by no means an artist, but it doesn’t scratch that itch for me the same way that drawing or doing stuff in blender does. It doesn’t really feel like I’m watching my vision slowly take shape, no matter how precise I make the prompt. It kinda just feels like what it is, a transformer iterating over some random noise.
I’m also a very technical person, and for years I was stuck in that same mindset of “I’m a technical guy, I’m not cut out for art”. I was only able to get out of this slump thanks to some of my art friends, who were really helpful in pointing me in the right direction.
Learning to draw isn’t the easiest thing in the world, and trust me I’m probably as bad at it as you are, but it’s fun, and it feels satisfying.
I agree that AI has a place as another artistic medium, but I also feel like it can become a trap for people like me who think they don’t have an artistic bone in their body.
If you do feel like getting back into drawing, then as a fellow technical person I’d recommend learning blender first. It taught me some of the skills I also use in drawing, like perspective, shading, and splitting complex objects into simpler shapes. It’s also just plain fun.
i like the idea of AI as a tool artists can use, but that’s not a capitalist’s viewpoint, unfortunately. they will try to replace people.
I hate this sentiment. It’s not a tool like a brush is to a canvas. It’s a machine that runs off the fuel of our creative achievements. The sheer amount of pro AI shit I read from this place just makes me that closer to putting a bullet in my fucking skull
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Once you reincarnate in the future, generative models will make even better art than they do today. It’ll be a losing battle against time.
Shill
This. AI was never made for the sole purpose of creating art or beating humans in chess. Doing so are just side quests for the real stuff.
What do you think the “real stuff” is?
Tech bros are not really techie themselves as they are really just Wall Street bros with tech as their product. Most claim they can code, but if they were coders they would be coding. They are not coders, they are businessmen through and through.who just happen to sell tech.
Most claim they can code, but if they were coders they would be coding
I dislike techbros as much as you, but this isn’t really a valid statement.
I can code, but I can’t sell a crypto scam to millions of rubes.
If I could, why would I waste my time writing code?
Many techbros are likely “good enough” coders who have better marketing skills and used their tech knowledge to leverage into business instead.
There are plenty of things you can shit on AI art for
But it is neither badly approximately, nor can a student produce such work in less than a minute.
This feels like the other end of the extreme of the tech bros
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Is English your second language?
Is it that obvious?
No, actually not at all.
I only ask because if English is your second language then your repetition with “other end of the extreme of the tech bros” makes sense. Your mistake is one that many English-as-first-language writers make.
That’s all, I didn’t mean to make you feel self-conscious.
That is perfectly valid English. You can use the word “the” twice in a sentence.
Of the of the
I just love the idjits who think not showing empathy to people AI bros are trying to put out of work will save them when the algorithms come for their jobs next
When LeopardsEatingFaces becomes your economic philosophy
I think approximation is the right word here. It’s pretty cool and all and I’m looking forward how it will develop. But it’s mostly a fun toy.
I’m stoked for the moment the tech bros understand, that an AI is way better at doing their job than it is at creating art.
tech bros jobs is to wrote bad javascript and fall for scam, this AI already beaten
So you’re happy to see AI take someone else’s job as long as it isn’t taking your job.
Taking the jobs of the people responsible for creating it seems preferable to taking others’ jobs.
Less work being done by anyone is better. Thinking it’s bad that work is done for us by robots is the brain worms talking.
Indeed. Ideally AI would do every job, so that humans can focus on just doing what we want to do. It’d be like the whole species getting to retire.
You’d rather cheer for people to lose their jobs without anyone calling you out on it, sure.
I’m not the angry one wishing unemployment on my “enemies” here.
Who are you?
What do you want?
The ideal endpoint is to eliminate the concept of “jobs” entirely. Why should people have to work?
Okay. So why are you breaking that guy’s balls, over automating away jobs, which you don’t want to exist?
Because currently we do need jobs. Otherwise why is he upset about AI in the first place?
That comment was very Reddit of you. Don’t do that, please.
You’d rather cheer for people to lose their jobs without anyone calling you out on it, sure.
Keep assuming. Fuel your own rage. I tried. Now I’m out. Good night and goodbye.
I’m not the angry one wishing unemployment on my “enemies” here.
I think they’re using AI to say the same sentence over and over again.
He’s saying the same thing because he’s not actually getting a proper response. The other guy just keeps saying shit like “That’s very reddit of you” or some shit after possibly threatening his job.
You said tech bros will realize it’s easier to replace their jobs than those of creatives. Who is included in “tech bros” here? I wanted a job in tech and can’t get one partly because of AI. Am I a tech bro? I would be very careful what you imply here.
All three of you are insufferable
I am insufferable for wanting a job? I am not the one inventing these AIs. Nor am I the one firing people because they exist.
When people talk about “tech bros” without clarifying who they mean I can only imagine they are including people like me.
Honestly people are trying to desperately to automate physical labor to. The problem is the machines don’t understand the context of their work which can cause problems. All the work of AI is a result of trying to make a machine that can. The art and humanities is more a side project
Nothing wrong in automating tasks that previously needed human labour. I would much rather sit back and chill, and let automation do my bidding
If only the people in control of the wealth would let the rest of us chill while the machines do all the labor.
Yeah if only I didn’t have to farm food all day, and worry about the constant gnawing of my empty stomach, and the predators at my door, then I could maybe sit and watch some netflix or play video games, listen to concerts that took place fifty years ago, or just soak in a hot tub of water, our horrible society keeps all that leisure for the most wealthy.
The art and humanities is more a side project
I’ll add:
A side project that isn’t a life or death situation like most of those physical labor things you’re talking about. Art isn’t also bound or constrain by rules and regulations like those jobs and if the AI fails at art then there’s no problem. Nobody would care.
Besides, if it fails at art it might even create something we never thought
this is fundamentally the opposite of what generative AI does. its fail state is basically regurgitating its training data intact.
you kidding? that’s its success state
So… art is essentially failing ahaha.
Yeah pretty much. I think. I am no art connoisseur though. If I see pretty drawings or images or whatever, I like.
Yeah, no.
First AI right now can create very decent images in seconds for basically free, and it only will get better.
Second, AI can do much more than that: translation, Explaining a text in simpler words, help write code, semantic search… Creating poems about armadillos and talking like a pirate are fun novelties, but not the goals.
Hahaha look how you get downvoted for stating the obvious. Amazing community here.
There are so many factual errors in their comment tho.
Good things you stated some? Why not have an actual discussion instead of a pissing contest?
That stuff is not free, for example. The energy and water usage is simply not economical.
I said basically free. It costs a fraction of a cent to generate an image, that would take a human a few hours at least.
What if I tell you that the effort that gets put nto the image is a vital part of art?
Well, that’s your opinion. I’m more of a finished product kind of guy.
Art itself isn’t useless it’s just incredibly replicable. There is so much good art out there that people don’t need to consume crap.
It’s like saying there is no money in being a footballer. Of course there is loads of money in being a footballer. But most people that play football don’t make any money.
Pretty sure whoever wrote the meme is talking about essay writing in Arts/Humanities, (not the disciplines where you draw and paint etc which are Fine Arts and are not Faculty of Arts in an academic context.
I work in AI. LLM’s are cool and all, but I think it’s all mostly hype at this stage. While some jobs will be lost (voice work, content creation) my true belief is that we’ll see two increases:
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The release of productivity tools that use LLM’s to help automate or guide menial tasks.
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The failure of businesses that try to replicate skilled labour using AI.
In order to stop point two, I would love to see people and lawmakers really crack down on AI replacing jobs, and regulating the process of replacing job roles with AI until they can sufficiently replace a person. If, for example, someone cracks self-driving vehicles then it should be the responsibility of owning companies and the government to provide training and compensation to allow everyone being “replaced” to find new work. This isn’t just to stop people from suffering, but to stop the idiot companies that’ll sack their entire HR department, automate it via AI, and then get sued into oblivion because it discriminated against someone.
I sincerely doubt AI voice over will out perform human actors in the next 100 years in any metric, including cost or time savings.
Not sure why you’re downvoted, but this is already happening. There was a story a few days ago of a long-time BBC voice-over artist that lost their gig. There have also been several stories of VA workers being handed contracts that allow the reuse of their voice for AI purposes.
The artist you’re referring to is Sara Poyzer - https://m.imdb.com/name/nm1528342/ - she was replaced in one specific way:
The BBC is making a documentary about someone (as yet unknown), who is dying and has lost the ability to speak. Poyzer was on pencil (like standby, hold the date - but not confirmed).to narrate the dying person’s words. Instead they contracted an AI agency to use AI to mimic the dying persons voice (from when they could still speak).
It would likely be cheaper and easier to hire an impressionist, or Ms Poyzer herself but I assume they are doing it for the “novelty” value, and with the blessing of the terminally ill person.
For that reason I think my point still stands, they have made the work harder and more expensive, and created a negative PR storm - all problems created by AI and not solved by.
You are incorrect that AI voice contracts are common place, as SAG negotiated that use of AI voice tools is to be compensated as if the actor recorded the lines themselves - which most actors do from home nowadays, so again it’s at best the same cost for an inferior product - but actually more expensive because you were paying just the actor, but now you’re paying the actor AND the AI techs.
edit: and not just that, AI voice products are bad. Yes, you can maybe fudge the uncanny Valley a bit by sculpting the prompts and the script to edge towards short sentences, delivered in a monotone, narrating an emotionless description without caring about stress patterns or emphasis, meter, inflection or caesura, and without any breathing sounds (sometimes a positive sometimes a negative) - but that’s all in an actors wheelhouse for free.
Nah fuck HR, they’re the shield of the companies to discriminate withing margins from behind
I think the proper route is a labor replacement tax to fund retraining and replacement pensions
I’ve also heard it’s true that as far as we can figure, we’ve basically reached the limit on certain aspects of LLMs already. Basically, LLMs need a FUCK ton of data to be good. And we’ve already pumped them full of the entire internet so all we can do now is marginally improve these algorithms that we barely understand how they work. Think about that, the entire Internet isnt enough to successfully train LLMs.
LLMs have taken some jobs already (like audio transcription, basic copyediting, and aspects of programming), we’re just waiting for the industries to catch up. But we’ll need to wait for a paradigm shift before they start producing pictures and books or doing complex technical jobs with few enough hallucinations that we can successfully replace people.
My own personal belief is very close to what you’ve said. It’s a technology that isn’t new, but had been assumed to not be as good as compositional models because it would cost a fuck-ton to build and would result in dangerous hallucinations. It turns out that both are still true, but people don’t particularly care. I also believe that one of the reasons why ChatGPT has performed so well compared to other LLM initiatives is because there is a huge amount of stolen data that would get OpenAI in a LOT of trouble.
IMO, the real breakthroughs will be in academia. Now that LLM’s are popular again, we’ll see more research into how they can be better utilised.
Afaik open ai got their training data from basically a free resource that they just had to request access to. They didn’t think much about it along with everyone else. No one could have predicted that it would be that valuable until after the fact where in retrospect it seems obvious.
Are you saying that if a company adopts AI to replace a job, they should have to help the replaced workers find new work? Sounds like something one can loophole by cutting the department for totally unrelated reasons before coincidentally realizing that they can have AI do that work, which they totally didn’t think of before firing people.
That’s why it would need regulation to work…
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Turing Incompleteness is a pathway to many powers the Computer Scientists would consider incalculable.
Except they have convinced themselves that if it can’t be calculated it’s worthless.
they’re misunderstanding the reasoning for spending billions.
the reason to spend all the money to approximate is so we can remove arts and humanities majors altogether… after enough approximation yield similar results to present day chess programs which regularly now beat humans and grand masters. their vocation is doomed to the niche, like most of humanity, eventually.
Imagine seeing writing and art as purely functional activities.
What else can they be seen as other than hobbies or marketing?
Maybe visit a classical museum once in a while
I’ll let you ponder that particular point. Maybe you’ll be struck with an epiphany and be motivated to share it with the world, in some shape or form.
If you think arts and humanities are useless, you probably lack an imagination.
Like completely.
I won’t say you’re useless, because simple minded grunts are needed.
Humanity wouldn’t exist without the arts.
Ah yes “the arts”. Definitely the point of humanities, and nothing to do with categorizing the world into “important people” and “simple minded grunts”.
Humanities students don’t read these days, and it shows.
“Art” as a term is so all-encompassing that it’s hard to define what is and isn’t art.
I’m sure you can rustle up some very reductive few word definition, but the most popular ones go something like “the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination”, and that’s a very broad definition, wouldn’t you agree?
I’m sure you’d also agree there just are some people who never seem to express or apply any of their creative skill or imagination (and some who genuinely seem to lack any altogether), despite still being productive members or society.
Not everyone needs to be an artist, a minority of the population will do, but without artists, we would all perish. As those people who don’t necessarily express or apply creative skill or imagination, still most certainly enjoy it, and probably couldn’t get through their jobs without it. (Repetitive work is just so much easier while listening to music, and I’m sure that’s not a controversial statement.)
So what do humanities students do these days then, according to you, since they “don’t read”?
The arts isn’t about art. Graduates of an arts degree are not generally artists
Yes, arts as a university subject is more looking into artists and their work and what it meant/means for everyone/other people.
I was never suggesting “arts” in universities are hand-painting lessons, was I?
I am a writer with two novels in progress and I’m into photography. I consider myself pretty creative.
Arts and humanities are useless.
I’d love to see some data on the people who believe that AI fundamentally can’t do art and the people who believe that AI is an existential threat to artists.
Anecdotally, there seems to be a large overlap between the adherents of what seem to be mutually exclusive positions and I wish I understood that better.
People used to pay lots of money to digital artists for various tasks. Now generative models like stable diffusion can do many of those things, just as graphic design. This is resulting in people paying less to artists.
Well yes, since the economy is in shambles, us normal people will try to spend as little money as possible to make sure we are safe
Most of Arts will be automated away. Stable Diffusion is just the beginning.
I would like you to know that if you say this, or other things you said in this thread to my face, I would punch the smug out of you.
Remember this post in a few years when your billion dollar theft machines have shut down for being huge wastes of money and effort and the few survivors, if any, have been sectioned off into expensive subscription models that you are priced out of because they need to make the literal billions of dollars it costs to make and run them back at some point.
This is the same-ass bubble as NFTs and crypto and it will also die.
why so angry?
Because it’s a useful emotion.
🤡
If AI becomes responsible for producing Disney musicals, then they probably won’t have any gay-coded characters anymore. What about Scar? What about Ursula? What about Gaston? What about Shang??
We need human artists because humans are capable of sneaking content that is actually societally beneficial into what would otherwise be soulless corporate products.
How were Gaston and Shang coded gay?
Right, the only value and purpose of arts and literature, it’s creation and enjoyment, is to make a product to sell or consume a story. What a foolish opinion.
Stable Diffusion is open source and free to be used by anyone. A lot of people have used it for creation and enjoyment. It cuts artists out of the loop and enables a lot of ordinary people to create art. I see this as a huge win.
enables a lot of ordinary people to create art.
Exactly the type of fucking idiot that’s never created art in their life.
“Art is paintings of horses”-ass motherfucker.
The reason you can’t make art isn’t because you’re bad at drawing or painting and need AI to help you, it’s because you don’t have the creativity to overcome those limitations. No matter what words you put into stable diffusion, you will only create pictures, not art - there’s no meaning underlying the piece, you just typed “t-rex with massive tits” and called the output art because you can’t tell the difference.Well, people like what comes out of Stable Diffusion. Which is perfectly fine.
This is like the pizza shop complaining that I’m cooking at home.
its more like the pizza shop calling you out when you’re cooking frozen pizza and calling yourself a chef
all power to you if you want to just consume slop, but dont complain when you turn around years later and the quality of everything across the board has gone even further to shit cos you were so happy you could type in words and see anything you wanted for all the 15 minutes of dopamine it gave you
Artist incomes are threatened by the rise of Generative models. Especially mediocre artists who Stable Diffusion have already surpassed.
Technology changes the world and obsoletes some professions. It has been like this for ever. Artists are not any different.
How will AI take over creative professions when it can’t even perform rote professions? AI chatbots keep going rogue and lying to customers about company policies (and even the actual law), image generators can’t get enough of illegal and violent imagery, facial recognition AI’s keep identifying black people as all looking the same - in art the value of a peice is constrained by the meaning it has to people, so why do you think that LLMs and all the other predictive generators we laughably call intelligent will be able to create meaningful peices by putting together the most likely set of pixels?
Spoken like someone who doesn’t understand why people engage with art in the first place. AKA a techbro.
People love Stable Diffusion, and use it a lot. Why do you think is that?
Because most people don’t engage with art critically. See Marvel movies. Maybe others are fine with remixed slop but I am not.
That’s a pretty shit take. Humankind spent nearly 12 thousand years figuring out the combustion engine. It took 1 million years to figure farming. Compared to that, less than 500 years to create general intelligence will be a blip in time.
This is some pretty weird and lowkey racist exposition on humanity.
Humankind isn’t a single unified thing. Individual cultures have their own modes of subsistence and transportation that are unique to specific cultural needs.
It’s not that it took 1 million years to “figure out” farming. It’s that 1 specific culture of modern humans (biologically, humans as we conceive of ourselves today have existed for about 200,000 years, with close relatives existing for in the ballpark of 1M years) started practicing a specific mode of subsistence around 23,000 years ago. Specific groups of indigenous cultures remaining today still don’t practice agriculture, because it’s not actually advantageous in many ways – stored foods are less nutritious, agriculture requires a fairly sedentary existence, it takes a shit load of time to cultivate and grow food (especially when compared to foraging and hunting), which leads to less leisure time.
Also where did you come up with the number 12,000 for “figuring out” the combustion engine? Genuinely curious. Like were we “working on it” for 12k years? I don’t get it. But this isn’t exactly a net positive and has come with some pretty disastrous consequences. I say this because you’re proposing a linear path for “humanity” forward, when the reality is that humans are many things, and progress viewed in this way has a tendency toward racism or at least ethnocentrism.
But also yeah, the point of this meme is “artists are valuable.”
This kind of thinking is dangerous and will hinder planetary unification…
All I’m trying to point out is that distinct cultures are worthy of respect and shouldn’t be glossed over.
But be real with me: can you think of a single effort for “planetary unification” that wasn’t a total nightmare? I sure can’t.
This attitude is what prevents us from unifying…smh
i think you’re missing the point, which i took as this - what arts and humanities folks do is valuable (as evidenced by efforts to recreate it) despite common narratives to the contrary.
Of course it’s valuable. So is, e.g., soldering components on a circuit board, but we have robots for doing that at scale now.
Do you think robots will ever become better than humans at creating art, in the same way they’ve become better than us at soldering?
Quite easily, yes. Unlike humans, with their limited lifespans and slow minds, Artificial Inteligence could create hundreds of different paintings in the time it’d take me to finish one.
Being able to put out lots of works isn’t the same as being able to come up with good, meaningful art?
Llm’s are not a step to agi. Full stop. Lovelace called this like 200 years ago. Turing and minsky called it in the 40s.
Pray tell, when did we achieve AGI so that you can say this with such conviction? Oh, wait, we didn’t - therefore the path there is still unknown.
When the Jewish made their first mud golem ages ago?
To create general AI, we first need a way for computers to communicate proficiently with humans.
LLMs are just that.
Its not though. It’s autocorrect. It is not communication. It’s literally autocorrect.
That is not an argument. Let me demonstrate:
Humans can’t communicate. They are meat. They are not communicating. It’s literally meat.
Really only around 80 years between the first machines we’d consider computers and today’s LLMs, so I’d say that’s pretty damn impressive
That’s why the sophon was sent to disrupt our progress. Smh
