So when I went through school you’d have two types of struggling kids:
Kid A would struggle to pass tests, but work hard and get every assignment done so they can keep their average in check. Teachers like this kid. Not that there’s anything wrong with this kid, but teachers project virtue on them sometimes just to shame kid B when kid B asks for consideration.
Kid B is who I assume many people here were and who I was. Kid B struggled to get from start to finish of all of the assignments that kept popping up and per haps couldn’t do the same task for very long. Kid B, however, could get high grades on most tests. If Kid B asks for some consideration to pass the class as they’ve gotten the information but weren’t able to finish all of the assignments and are told no, because Kid A exists and “I can stand someone who struggles with the tests but does the work, but I’ll never tolerate someone who is lazy”.
I have cptsd from years spent as kid B, but I’m pretty sure that’s a generic thing that happened to others as well. I had that quote shoved down my throat by a double digit number of adults. And the too-radical thought is this: I believe the teaching approach that holds kid A as a paragon of virtue and kid B as a lazy snot is quite discriminatory and maybe those are just two differently struggling kids. And maybe some consideration should be given to both. And maybe PTSD causing trauma should be withheld from both groups
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Most common thing any ADHD kid has ever heard from teacher parent meetings:
“_____ is so smart, they just need to ApPlY tHeMsElVeS”
Do you also hate the word “potential?”
Mmhmm. As well as “focus” and “concentrate”.
What about the phrase “just get a planner?”
This is a week old comment, but I was just triggered by the planner, and I needed to say so.
“He knows the material, he just doesn’t do the work.”
Yeah I was told the same thing. Eventually I was told I was Useless because I couldn’t complete tasks. Not lazy, Useless. I do not know why a 7th grade teacher thought that was ok. I now will never send my kids to a catholic school
If you want a genuinely radical take on education, Noam Chomsky says this in Understanding Power:
Well, that’s pretty much what the schools are like, I think: they reward discipline and obedience, and they punish independence of mind. If you happen to be a little innovative, or maybe you forgot to come to school one day because you were reading a book or something, that’s a tragedy, that’s a crime―because you’re not supposed to think, you’re supposed to obey, and just proceed through the material in whatever way they require.
And in fact, most of the people who make it through the education system and get into the elite universities are able to do it because they’ve been willing to obey a lot of stupid orders for years and years―that’s the way I did it, for example. Like, you’re told by some stupid teacher, “Do this,” which you know makes no sense whatsoever, but you do it, and if you do it you get to the next rung, and then you obey the next order, and finally you work your way through and they give you your letters: an awful lot of education is like that, from the very beginning. Some people go along with it because they figure, “Okay, I’ll do any stupid thing that asshole says because I want to get ahead”; others do it because they’ve just internalized the values―but after a while, those two things tend to get sort of blurred. But you do it, or else you’re out: you ask too many questions and you’re going to get in trouble.
Now, there are also people who don’t go along-and they’re called “behavior problems,” or “unmotivated,” or things like that. Well, you don’t want to be too glib about it―there are children with behavior problems but a lot of them are just independent-minded, or don’t like to conform, or just want to go their own way. And they get into trouble right from the very beginning, and are typically weeded out. I mean, I’ve taught young kids too, and the fact is there are always some who just don’t take your word for it. And the very unfortunate tendency is to try to beat them down, because they’re a pain in the neck. But what they ought to be is encouraged. Yeah: why take my word for it? Who the heck am I? Figure it out for yourself. That’s what real education would be about, in fact.
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8940492-well-that-s-pretty-much-what-the-schools-are-like-i
There’s a pretty well-supported theory that our education system was designed to churn out good factory workers. Obedient drones who will stand in one place for 8+ hours doing repetitive tasks that require a good memory and high attention to detail but only in the exact way they’re told to do something.
I used to complain that the rules of society were made up by “morning people and extroverts” when I was the opposite of both; now I recognize that I’m simply neurodivergent and the neurotypicals are the ones in charge. With therapy and reading posts like yours from other neurodivergent thinkers I’ve come to accept and appreciate how my brain works. I don’t see it as a mental illness (and even the term neurodivergent isn’t the best as it implies deviation from what’s “normal”). Maybe after society collapses we can build one that recognizes people think in different ways and have different strengths, but until then just remember: you’re not a bad person, you’re not broken, and you’re not alone.
Many teachers liked me, but they definitely were frustrated because they thought I was relying on my good tests only, as if I thought that being smart was enough in life. They warned me that hard work was also necessary.
I don’t blame them, and it is kind that they were worried about it, but it was not an attitude or belief, it was ADHD! A teacher even detected my memory problems and suggested a to-do list, but she didn’t know that even acquiring those habits is hard for us.I wish my teachers knew more about ADHD as all the clues were there. An early diagnosis would have helped me a lot.
I was definitely kid B. Little assignments, I wouldn’t remember and big assignments were too intimidating to start until the very last minute.
I remember in 8th grade we got our first really serious big assignment. My teacher specifically looked at me and said: you have 8 weeks to do this, you’ll need 8 weeks to do this, this isn’t one of these things where you can start a week before it’s due and pass.
All i heard was that i can pass wjen i start 2 weeks before.
I started on the friday before, so i still had 3 good days. But saturday, my friend wasn’t home from whom i needed the book from to do my assignment, so i still had the whole sunday. I got an A and learned that school is a scamI’m especially proud of the paper I started in college 3 hours before it was due, on a book I never read. Got a B!
I would read book reviews and critics’ opinions to shape my opinion of the book. I enjoyed many of the books I was assigned to read; others I had zero interest in.
My stepmother admitted a few years before she died that she was angry at me when I was in high school because I would sit down to write an essay assignment the night before it was due and pound out a single draft in a half hour that was ready to be turned in when she always had had to do multiple drafts.
Oh. You just reminded me of when teachers tried to instill “Good writing practices” on us. There would be a right draft due in one week, first draft due the next, then the second draft, then the revised draft, then the final paper, and then the revised final paper.
I always hated going through that bullshit. Why do I need ten versions when it’s just easier to do it right the first time!
If she had only known the anxiety that drove that draft out of you she probably wouldn’t have been mad. Well, if you’re like me at least.
You are describing textbook systemic ableism, and the sad reality is that calling it out and trying to act against it shouldn’t be, but is radical in a world where marginalising people for being different is the acceptable norm (for those in power it keeps us from disrupting their systems because we don’t fit their moulds and/or they might have to make extra considerations for us, which might cost them a few pennies, so that’s a no. And for the rest of the population - it gives them someone to be superior to. After all that’s all bigotry is - making one group feel superior to another to rationalise abuse and discrimination, using systems created by those who benefit the most from said abuse and discrimination either directly in stolen labour and resources or indirectly by sowing and maintaining division in the population to stop us from uniting against our oppressors).
I think this is a good starting place to learning about systemic ableism and the models of disability, which will help in understanding and breaking down these barriers and obstacles we face.
Go get yourself tested for ADHD and find a therapist. ADHD and PTSD are frequently concomitant for the reasons you’ve stated above.
Actually I’ve got diagnoses of autism, ADHD, and cptsd. Cptsd is the newest diagnosis that explains a lot. But my current therapist seems to be the only person I’ve met (including previous therapists) who affirms the ND sort of view of the world to the point where theyd likely agree with the post. That also includes friends with ADHD diagnoses who definitely accept my ND talk in regards to autism but seem to be hard rooted in the institutional view of their own (and my) adhd. So I sort of didn’t take it for granted that an ADHD community would see eye to eye on this stuff, but I am really glad that ADHD people who see it exist in some number because it seems like proof I might not be just a stubborn hold out jerk who refuses to participate.
I’m pretty sure I have some post traumatic stress disorder from school too. No, it’s not even that radical what you think. I personally think we need to dismantle schools all together, having kids sit at desks for more than 5 hours a day, 5 days a week for 12 years is straight up a form of psychological and physical abuse.
Okay well they thought that staying home and learning on the internet at their own self-directed pace was also fucking abuse and now nobody knows anything anymore , so what the fuck do we just not educate children?
I think that sort of learning was rushed through during the pandemic and has never been given a real shot.
Sorry just to clarify, I wasn’t involved in education at that time, but given that the only solution that’s ever worked for my task management (asynchronous, self directed) was rushed through during a life or death emergency, then that example used to prove it can’t happen is pretty rough for potential future me like people out there.
I don’t really know what you’re saying. I used to think as a child that learning online would just fix all my problems… I was pissed when the pandemic started and all these children could just go to school at home… but then I thought about it… I have every ability in the world right now to start my own business and to work at my own self-directed pace to make my own kind of money on free will alone… nobody tells me what to do or how to do it… do you know what I do with all of my free time? Absolutely fucking nothing I lay in bed all day because I don’t have to do anything.
As much as I hated it, being forced to do things like go to school or brush my teeth or get out of my bed in the morning or clean my room or eat food everyday… being forced to do those things actually made me a small bit better as a fucking human being… now that it’s all self-directed and free, I do nothing… and I was kid B all day all the way.
I have learned over my years that sometimes what we want isn’t what’s good for us in the long run. And sometimes you just got to suck it the fuck up, join the class, stop playing with bugs or reading books or whatever the fuck we both were doing to distract ourselves from terrible classes and awful teachers and shitty kids and abusive parents… and just do the fucking assignment. Get something done for once in our lives.
Am I the only one who was never told off as lazy by my teachers? Even if I neglected to turn in homework regularly, I worked hard on projects and participated in class. I don’t think I’ve ever asked a teacher to just let me pass if I didn’t make the grade. I usually calculated out what my grade would be if I missed a certain number of assignments, and figured out what test scores I needed. When I didn’t pass, maybe I lacked the gall or the privilege but it has never occured to me to ask a teacher to change something where the criteria was clearly spelled out from the start.
That’s pretty much America after school too. If you are not a high achiever, your seen as not worth it and “lazy”. Also Amerikkkas school system is what I believe to weed out people who don’t conform to society, and make kids into better servants for capatilism. Imo of course.
