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I have my doubts this is a technology even close to being achieved or that anyone would be interested in funding it.
You get a billionaire behind it and work in AI? All the venture capital. All of it.
I just had a mental image of an abandoned building with a sign on it saying “block chain”
Name another tweet that has as many applications besides dril’s entire account and
The orphan-crushing machine tweet
But think of all the shareholder value that could be created!
Not only that, but there’s literally a Star Trek episode about this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Time_(Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine)
Of course, it’s about torturing O’Brien.
That’s in my top 5 favorite episodes. The ending is brutal.
Zero rehabilitative potential, but they could basically do this now by putting a prisoner in restraints and sending them on a nutmeg trip. Guaranteed horror with a complete loss of time perception. If purgatory were real, it would be a nutmeg trip.
What
I tried it more than once and never got this, did they rip me off at grocery store?
It contains myristicin. Disclaimer up front that the best-case scenario is you don’t experience the trip and just get dry mouth and an upset stomach. It takes a lot of nutmeg, there’s a chance of poisoning since you likely won’t know the potency to begin with, and the Erowid vault is full of horrible experiences. Interesting to read though: https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Nutmeg.shtml
It’s super unpleasant both in the delivery (eating a sufficient amount of nutmeg for the effects is hard to do without vomiting), and also in experience. Buuut my experience was basically like a fever dream – really bad but not torture-level bad.
I remember mixing it with datura? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura Seeds.
Overall I am glad I don’t do such stupid things anymore. Can’t remember the effects but I didn’t feel super good overall for the next months even iirc. Tachykardia i think it was and generally fucked up psyche for months
I still feel like vomiting when thinking about it, 10 years later so it must have been pretty bad
All species of Datura are extremely poisonous and psychoactive, especially their seeds and flowers, which can cause respiratory depression, arrhythmias, fever, delirium, hallucinations, anticholinergic syndrome, psychosis, and death if taken internally.
Yeah well shit we didn’t have Wikipedia back then I guess. Psychosis and delirium that sounds kinda it.
Omg I am reading the article and this stuff is right out of the Witcher Trial of the Grasses. Basically kinda lottery if the seeds will kill you or not because their toxicity depends on age of the plant.
There’s a Black Mirror episode about that!
There’s a Deep Space 9 episode about that!
Which was never brought up again. Poor O’Brien
.
Hey, Keiko has a name you know.
We just saw the episode where the wraith took over Kinko’s body and threatened to kill her if O’Brien didn’t reconfigure the comm relays. I thought, “Here’s your way out, Miles!”
I am in S05 of DS9 (first watch) and saw this one recently in S04. We really enjoyed it.
Do they ever bring up that O’Brien isn’t the original O’Brien they knew, but rather the future O’Brien that swapped places? … I didn’t think so.
There’s an episode of Torchwood about that!
That Black Mirror episode still affects me to this day shudder
I had to give up on The Black Mirror after that episode where they have to exercise to earn credits and are forced to watch advertising. Then that girl thought she could make it out by singing but had to do porn instead. Couldn’t watch anymore after that.
That episode got darker after the porn part.
Oh yeah, I finished the episode. I couldn’t do the rest of the show after that.
I mean wasn’t season 1 episode 1 where we all watched a guy fuck a pig? Like if that wasn’t enough to get you to stop then you probably should go ahead and watch the rest of the series.
Ya, I watched that one too and thought it was funny. Then for some reason the workout thing really got to me hard too. I was working at a bank as a manager that was literally scamming people out of their money/ homes and hated my life. Living in a shoebox and barely able to afford my apartment. I hated my life. It really hit me hard.
also star trek: deep space nine.
2 I think, though I don’t remember the other one that’s not White Christmas.
Isn’t this just a Black Mirror episode?
and a Star Trek episode
And an Australian sci fi film.
And an American B grade scifi film
Episode “The Sentence” from The Outer Limits (1996)
Would Demolition Man count, due to the subliminal programming while frozen, or would the “put in cryostasis for 500 years” part kinda be the antethis of OP?
Likely inspired by Vernon Vinge’s The Cookie Monster:
https://museum.netstalking.org/storage/cyberlib/lib/burz/ving4.html
I know it’s a shitpost, but the idea behind something like this is counter to the point of rehabilitation. Civilization should move towards rehabilitation instead of punishment as the idea is that you want to integrate someone back into society. I am not sure inducing trauma and mental damage is conducive to rehabilitation.
Technology like this could actually be used to help the rehabilitation process by dilating time, and allowing the offender to be rehabilitated without actually wasting much of their actual life.
It would most likely be used for harsh punishment in this universe, but its nice to imagine living in a better one, sometimes.
I’m like 99% sure it would just make the time feel longer without any benefit of consciousness. Kind of like certain drugs make everything feel like it’s slow motion, but you still don’t get superhuman reflexes from them.
I think you’re exactly right. I’m not in any way qualified to make this statement but, if I’m right, you can’t just make the brain “go faster” and get more useful time without time actually passing. Processes need to happen in the brain for thoughts to occur, and you’d have to somehow speed those up… I mean there are chemical reactions happening in your nerve endings, how are those going to speed up? Especially by a factor of >1000 as implied by the OOP!
Processes need to happen in the brain for thoughts to occur
I disagree. I’ve had experiences far longer than their real life counterparts in dreams.
Not only that would be super cruel, it would also be pretty stupid, because how are you supposed to rehabilitate someone by basically just torturing them? And also, one of the good sides of prisons is keeping dangerous people away from their (potential) victims. Imagine if someone tried to murder you, went to jail, and then they got back out in 8 hours.
I’m sure the cartel would like this technology. Or their big brother the US government.
The potential future horrors of the world can make suicide seem like a good idea.
Are you saying that prisons actually reform people now?
I thought they were just private institutions that made insane amounts of money charging people 5 dollars for a pack of ramen and limiting their ability to visit family and friends
You’re not wrong, but that doesn’t mean we should abandon any attempt at reformation.
When has there been an attempt???
People that work in prisons are basically free labor slaves, yes they get paid, but its nothing compared to the cost of living in there!
The whole system is fucked and needs to be reformed.
They need to take money out of prisons like they need to take money out of politics (good fucking luck)
I never said prisoners don’t need to reformed, I said the system we have in place now is not meant to reform them.
Prisoners get access to counselling, education, and a library right?
I do agree with you that the system is messed up, and making it a for-profit activity just seems plain wrong to me. That said, it’s undeniable that there is some attempt at reform no matter how under-resourced.
Most prisons are not private and I don’t know who “they” are supposed to be but your government isn’t making money off prisons.
Hmmmm then why do they hold you past midnight so they can get paid for an extra day of you being there?
Reading comprehension is hard. They was referring to the prisons. And just because the prison itself isn’t private, doesn’t mean that everything inside it is run by the government.
Hmmmm then why do they hold you past midnight so they can get paid for an extra day of you being there?
Wouldn’t know, never been to jail. Show me where I said anything about this.
Reading comprehension is hard.
But being an asshole is easy. And me blocking you for it is equally as easy.
I think it would rely more on fear factor. Like they put someone under for what feels like 2 months, so they are on the brink of giving up hope, then pull em out and go “alright now we’ll assess you’re status and determine whether to put you back in for 10 years”
I speculate it wouldn’t work on a variety of people though, as their brain could already be adjusted to altered time perception through the use of drugs. Even without hard drugs or Adderall, you can still fuck with your time perception using only weed and sugar (the food-- as in drink four cans of cola and get super baked immediately, then set 15 minute timers and get lost in your own head, see how long each of those 15 minutes feel)
Studies have shown that in most cases that you’d care most about, extreme punishment does not serve as an effective deterrent to bad behavior. Creating the Torment Nexus as a way to enhance prison sentences serves only to increase the degree of cruelty involved in our already vengeance-oriented justice system.
I’ll need to find these studies and review them. Intuitively, the little I know about psychology suggests that that an extreme enough negative punishment will almost certainly cause a trauma deterring the afflicted individual from repeating the targeted behavior. This is, obviously, an unethical practice that no licensed practitioner of any form would employ and certainly qualifies as Cruel and Unusual Punishment. I am not promoting it’s use by any means, but suggesting that to the best of my inadequate knowledge that it’s supposedly effective. Then again, some may argue that capital punishment was meant to be an effective deterrent, which was proven false.
Any studies you care to share? No worries if not, just thought I should ask before I go venturing. Appreciate the discourse!
It’s been many years since I read them, so I don’t know them off the top of my head. That said, as I recall the explanation was that:
- most violent crimes are crimes of passion, and since they tend to occur in the heat of the moment people aren’t thinking about consequences
- a significant amount of property crimes are acts of economic desperation and/or crimes of opportunity, where the consequences of being caught are either unimportant compared to the more immediate survival needs of the perpetrator, or not fully considered when presented with a tempting opportunity for quick gain
and as such, most of what people think of when they think of criminal activity isn’t well controlled by draconian punishment, and is instead better addressed by improving the general welfare of the most at-risk populations, and focusing incarceration on rehabilitating offenders so as to be able to safely reintegrate into society.
If I recall correctly, white collar crime is one of the few exceptions, since it tends to require quite a lot of planning and forethought to carry out… and if I’m perfectly honest, I’m fine with a billionaire CEO being sentenced to one hour in the Torment Nexus for every hour of stolen wages his company profited from, but alas, that’s not the world we live in.
“Longer than you think Dad! LONGER THAN YOU THINK!!”
-The Jaunt, Stephen King
So, we can do what a bunch of aliens did to O’Brien when they tried, convicted and incarcerated him for 20 years and it was 20 minutes in real time.
Can I use this to make my 48 hour weekend feel like a 480 hour weekend? I really don’t want to be back at work.
No, sorry. Ethically, this technology can only be used for torture.
Sounds like you found some more time that you could be working!
Fuuu…
You can now work 2,047 hours per week.
But don’t worry, you’ll be appropriately rewarded with a partially eaten slice of pizza (the CEO didn’t like it).What’s my wage. Death?
Can I use this to make my 48 hour weekend feel like a 480 hour weekend?
No, because its a technological fantasy.
People can “lose time” such that they don’t realize how long they’ve been unconscious. But they can’t “gain time”. That’s not how brains work. You can’t get an extra six weeks to study for an exam an hour before the test. Nothing will let you do that. Its pure wizard-tier shit.
There are stories of people experiencing whole lifetimes within dreams, especially within comas, as well as hallucinogenic trips that seem to last many years.
The human brain is a lot weirder than we know.
And it should be deeply troubling that if we ever learn to manipulate this kind of time perception that some people want to turn it towards torture, and they could get state backing to do so.
There are stories of people experiencing whole lifetimes within dreams
There are anecdotes about people claiming to remember living whole lifetimes within dreams.
Even taking this utterly impossible to prove claim at face value, there’s no way to replicate anything like that in practice.
And it should be deeply troubling
I’m about as concerned with this as the possibility someone might try to reverse my gravity or Frankenstein my head into someone else’s torso.
The plural of “anecdote” is “data”, and this is a fairly commonly reproduced story. I don’t know if you understand just how much of psychology and medicine in general is literally just self-reports. If we refused to listen to anybody about their personal stories, we’d know next to nothing about the human mind, and there are absolutely ways to correlate certain states of mind to external measures like FMRI scans.
this is a fairly commonly reproduced story
The “falling dream” is a fairly common reproduced story. But “we’re going to invent a device that gives you the falling dream” is a big claim and “we’re going to give you a heart attack in your sleep by inflicting the falling dream on you” is an even bigger one.
I don’t know if you understand just how much of psychology and medicine in general is literally just self-reports.
Self-reports substantiated with medical data to correlate the symptoms with real physical conditions.
You don’t rush a guy with chest pains into the ER, then skip the EKG.
And if the guy with the chest pains says “These pains feel like they’ve been happening forever”, you don’t put “forever” on his medical record under “onset of symptoms”.
there are absolutely ways to correlate certain states of mind to external measures like FMRI scans
States of mind are very different than conditions of physiology. And even they have their limits. The title card is pure fiction. And trying to tie it back to “a feeling I had when I woke up from a dream” isn’t any kind of evidence-based analysis.
Unless you have a point then there’s nothing here to respond to.
I really wish people would learn to say what they mean.
There’s definitely ways to make a few minutes feel like hours. Unfortunately those ways aren’t really that pleasant…
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
If You’re Armed At The Glenmont Metro Please Shoot Me
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Can they just sort out the housing price and cost of living so we’re not forced to break the law to survive and get their thousand year sentence? Or nah?
I don’t think you understand how the system works.
No of course, if people could understand the system, we wouldn’t need the system.
I want that so much, get 10 university degrees, learn to play the guitar, become a master craftsman, all in a day.
A few trillion years trapped punching your way out of a time loop…
Came here the long way…
While that would indeed be awesome, that’s not the route they proposed. It’s more about slowing down the perception of time, rather than being able to actually do something peoductive during that.
Philosopher Rebecca Roache, who leads a team of scholars, explains two methods to this madness. The first involves psychotic drugs that distort a person’s sense of time.
With a simple pill or injection, prisoners may believe they’ve been incarcerated for much longer than any natural human life could allow.
The second approach Roach explains is a bit more complex. Option number two involves uploading human minds to computers (da f*ck?), and speeding up the rate at which the brain functions. On her blog, Roach writes: "[…] This would, obviously, be much cheaper for the taxpayer than extending criminals’ lifespans to enable them to serve 1,000 years in real time.”
https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/new-technology-could-make-inmates-feel-like-theyre-serving-a-1000-year-sentence-in-8-hours-scrol/Despite thinking, “wow that’s a disgusting way to see and treat humans”, and some obvious moral concerns (like, social isolation for what feels like 1000 years, which will fuck up most people badly), which make this feel like a black mirror episode, the mind-upload issue is technically extremely tricky. Even if we had the technology to “upload” the human mind, it will be a copy, a clone, not you individually. And if we don’t have an option to download the copy back into your brain, it will just be a waste of energy.
More importantly, an intriguing question is raised: After such a download, will this be you? Or just a copy of a copy and thereby another being which just replaces another one.
Another thing I find important to ask here: what’s the point of penalties? These suggestions seem to me like psychological torture rather than measures to “correct” social behaviour. In no way resocialisation seems to matter here. So we just fuck people up by that and unleash them onto society afterwards. Doesn’t sound good to me.
Sorry for not keeping my reply focused on your idea. I had some time to spare and this kept me busy.
The technology required to do any of this would allow for so much stuff, and their first idea is how to use it to imprison people? What the actual fuck?
With all the productivity increases over last 100 years, the ruling class finally realised that they don’t need as big a society as before in order to serve their needs.
As a result, they tried hiring Thanos. When that failed, they had an idea: enlarge the prisons.
These are the stories of these poor souls
Dum dum (in SVU opening style)
Many peopke do believe the goal of criminal justice system is punishment. So this is great for them, it stream lines the process
Well it definitely isn’t reforming the prisoners…
Well it definitely isn’t reforming the prisoners…
depends which country. Your country can also reform prisoners.
This just sounds like straight up torture with extra steps.
No rehabilitation, no isolation of dangerous individuals from the general population. I’m decidedly anti-incarceration but at least there are arguments for it in place of something functional and just.
This just doesn’t solve any problems and adds some new ones. It sounds unbelievably cruel.
What do you propose instead of incarceration?
